python2 EoL wiki "Python2orPython3"
Good day, Suggestion: We may want to edit this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 To denote the reality of: https://pythonclock.org/ (Jan2020 Python2 EoL) Thank you -- Matt Callaghan | Senior QA System Engineer | bsmtechnologies c: +1 (226) 339-8515 e: Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com w: <http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> www.bsmtechnologies.com<http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> ................................................................................................................ This email may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use, forwarding or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you receive this email in error, please advise me.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 4:44 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> wrote:
Good day,
Suggestion:
We may want to edit this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3
To denote the reality of: https://pythonclock.org/ (Jan2020 Python2 EoL)
I'd be happy to give you editing access to make this sort of change yourself. Be aware that doing so may shift the tone of the entire page, from "well, Py3 is preferred long-term option, but Py2 is still pretty reasonable" to "Py3 is basically the only viable option for anything beyond the near future". That will probably necessitate other edits. ChrisA
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point. What is the community's preference to that consideration? The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems." -- Matt Callaghan | Senior QA System Engineer | bsmtechnologies c: +1 (226) 339-8515 e: Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com w: <http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> www.bsmtechnologies.com<http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> ................................................................................................................ This email may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use, forwarding or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you receive this email in error, please advise me. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com<mailto:Chris%20Angelico%20%3crosuav@gmail.com%3e>> To: Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt%20Callaghan%20%3cMatt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com%3e>> Cc: pydotorg-www@python.org <pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:%22pydotorg-www@python.org%22%20%3cpydotorg-www@python.org%3e>> Subject: Re: [pydotorg-www] python2 EoL wiki "Python2orPython3" Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 04:48:06 +1000 On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 4:44 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com>> wrote: Good day, Suggestion: We may want to edit this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 To denote the reality of: https://pythonclock.org/ (Jan2020 Python2 EoL) I'd be happy to give you editing access to make this sort of change yourself. Be aware that doing so may shift the tone of the entire page, from "well, Py3 is preferred long-term option, but Py2 is still pretty reasonable" to "Py3 is basically the only viable option for anything beyond the near future". That will probably necessitate other edits. ChrisA
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 5:19 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> wrote:
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point.
What is the community's preference to that consideration?
The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems."
I can't speak for everyone, only myself. Personally, I think the page should basically say "use Python 3 unless you're maintaining legacy code", with some elaborating information; other people may have other preferred pitches. But if you want to keep it really simple, then something like you say will be of value, and will take a lot less effort. ChrisA
Ni, all. (That was a typo for "Hi", but it remains in homage to Brett Cannon). As the author of the "Migration and Coexistence" chapter of "Python in a Nutshell" this is a topic I've been following quite closely, though more from the "regular user" point of view than as a developer. I'd be happy to take part in an email discussion about the shape and tone of the proposed content, given the significance of this year-end. I can't guarantee having much time to do the actual writing, but will undertake to at least stay in touch with the process. My own personal preference would be to wave a respectful goodbye to 2.7 from the (Python core) developer community, with encouragement to all who aspire to the open source ethic to continue to breathe life into those bits that remain useful. Probably the same question should be debated within the PSF more broadly, since the Foundation might well be prepared to act as a continued conduit for support to the Python 2 community. The main thrust should definitely be "only if you absolutely have to, for well-defined reasons." I could list some good reasons. The tone should be forward-looking without sounding in any way triumphal or self-congratulatory. With a definite conclusion that Python 2's future is assured as long as it retains the same active community spirit that it created. Kind regards, Steve Holden On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 8:25 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 5:19 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> wrote:
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point.
What is the community's preference to that consideration?
The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says
the summary of:
"It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems."
I can't speak for everyone, only myself. Personally, I think the page should basically say "use Python 3 unless you're maintaining legacy code", with some elaborating information; other people may have other preferred pitches.
But if you want to keep it really simple, then something like you say will be of value, and will take a lot less effort.
ChrisA _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
On 5/21/19 4:00 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
My own personal preference would be to wave a respectful goodbye to 2.7 from the (Python core) developer community, with encouragement to all who aspire to the open source ethic to continue to breathe life into those bits that remain useful. Probably the same question should be debated within the PSF more broadly, since the Foundation might well be prepared to act as a continued conduit for support to the Python 2 community.
The main thrust should definitely be "only if you absolutely have to, for well-defined reasons
and more
> > The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: > "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems." >
I can't speak for everyone, only myself. Personally, I think the page should basically say "use Python 3 unless you're maintaining legacy code", with some elaborating information; other people may have other preferred pitches.
obviously it's going to be an opinionated thing. and the wiki is fine for that (to an extent), I don't think we need to worry quite as much about "what policy does the PSF want to follow" here before even getting started... and if someone takes offense "we" can just edit it some more. So I'd say if there's an editor who feels strongly about improving it, just go ahead and improve it. and then we can look at it and react. It's possible to subscribe to page changes, which I do, I'll pop up with something if I think it's worth it. In My So Verrrry Humble Opinion, any efforts to keep pages current are better than waiting around to get lots of people to agree minute details and as a result things staying stale... stale being always a wiki risk anyways.
On 5/21/19 4:00 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
My own personal preference would be to wave a respectful goodbye to 2.7 from the (Python core) developer community, with encouragement to all who aspire to the open source ethic to continue to breathe life into those bits that remain useful. Probably the same question should be debated within the PSF more broadly, since the Foundation might well be prepared to act as a continued conduit for support to the Python 2 community.
The main thrust should definitely be "only if you absolutely have to, for well-defined reasons [...]
In My So Verrrry Humble Opinion, any efforts to keep pages current are better than waiting around to get lots of people to agree minute details and as a result things staying stale... stale being always a wiki risk anyways.
True, that. I was probably exercising An Abundance of Caution given that
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 12:15 AM Mats Wichmann <mats@wichmann.us> wrote: the 2 to 3 transition has been known to excite people's sensibilities.
On 21.05.2019 21:19, Matt Callaghan wrote:
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point.
What is the community's preference to that consideration?
The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems."
+1
--
*Matt Callaghan *| Senior QA System Engineer | *bsm*technologies**
*c:* +1 (226) 339-8515
*e:* *Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com* **w:*** *<http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/>www.bsmtechnologies.com <http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> ................................................................................................................ This email may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use, forwarding or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you receive this email in error, please advise me.
-----Original Message----- *From*: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com <mailto:Chris%20Angelico%20%3crosuav@gmail.com%3e>> *To*: Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com <mailto:Matt%20Callaghan%20%3cMatt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com%3e>> *Cc*: pydotorg-www@python.org <pydotorg-www@python.org <mailto:%22pydotorg-www@python.org%22%20%3cpydotorg-www@python.org%3e>> *Subject*: Re: [pydotorg-www] python2 EoL wiki "Python2orPython3" *Date*: Wed, 22 May 2019 04:48:06 +1000
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 4:44 AM Matt Callaghan
<Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com <mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com>> wrote:
Good day,
Suggestion:
We may want to edit this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3
To denote the reality of: https://pythonclock.org/
(Jan2020 Python2 EoL)
I'd be happy to give you editing access to make this sort of change
yourself. Be aware that doing so may shift the tone of the entire
page, from "well, Py3 is preferred long-term option, but Py2 is still
pretty reasonable" to "Py3 is basically the only viable option for
anything beyond the near future". That will probably necessitate other
edits.
ChrisA
_______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg Python Software Foundation http://www.python.org/psf/ http://www.malemburg.com/
Sounds like a plan, I will make the changes and propose an edit. Yes please add me (MattCallaghan) to the EditorsGroup. (though of note, attempts to login at the moment are gateway timing out, maybe a blip) -- Matt Callaghan | Senior QA Systems Engineer | BSM, a Geotab Company c: +1 (226) 339-8515 e: Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> w: bsmtechnologies.com<http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> | geotab.com<https://www.geotab.com/> ................................................................................................................ This email may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use, forwarding or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you receive this email in error, please advise me. -----Original Message----- From: M.-A. Lemburg <mal@python.org<mailto:%22M.-A.%20Lemburg%22%20%3cmal@python.org%3e>> To: Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt%20Callaghan%20%3cMatt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com%3e>>, rosuav@gmail.com <rosuav@gmail.com<mailto:%22rosuav@gmail.com%22%20%3crosuav@gmail.com%3e>> Cc: pydotorg-www@python.org <pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:%22pydotorg-www@python.org%22%20%3cpydotorg-www@python.org%3e>> Subject: Re: [pydotorg-www] python2 EoL wiki "Python2orPython3" Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 09:36:46 +0200 On 21.05.2019 21:19, Matt Callaghan wrote: Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point. What is the community's preference to that consideration? The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems." +1 -- *Matt Callaghan *| Senior QA System Engineer | *bsm*technologies** *c:* +1 (226) 339-8515 *e:* *Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:*Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com>* **w:*** *<http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/>www.bsmtechnologies.com <http://www.bsmtechnologies.com/> ................................................................................................................ This email may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use, forwarding or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you receive this email in error, please advise me. -----Original Message----- *From*: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com<mailto:rosuav@gmail.com> <mailto:Chris%20Angelico%20%3crosuav@gmail.com<mailto:Chris%20Angelico%20%3crosuav@gmail.com>%3e>> *To*: Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> <mailto:Matt%20Callaghan%20%3cMatt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt%20Callaghan%20%3cMatt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com>%3e>> *Cc*: pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:pydotorg-www@python.org> <pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:pydotorg-www@python.org> <mailto:%22pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:%22pydotorg-www@python.org>%22%20%3cpydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:%22%20%3cpydotorg-www@python.org>%3e>> *Subject*: Re: [pydotorg-www] python2 EoL wiki "Python2orPython3" *Date*: Wed, 22 May 2019 04:48:06 +1000 On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 4:44 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> <mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com<mailto:Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com>>> wrote: Good day, Suggestion: We may want to edit this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 To denote the reality of: https://pythonclock.org/ (Jan2020 Python2 EoL) I'd be happy to give you editing access to make this sort of change yourself. Be aware that doing so may shift the tone of the entire page, from "well, Py3 is preferred long-term option, but Py2 is still pretty reasonable" to "Py3 is basically the only viable option for anything beyond the near future". That will probably necessitate other edits. ChrisA _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org<mailto:pydotorg-www@python.org> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:06 AM Matt Callaghan <Matt.Callaghan@bsmtechnologies.com> wrote:
Sounds like a plan, I will make the changes and propose an edit.
Yes please add me (MattCallaghan) to the EditorsGroup.
(though of note, attempts to login at the moment are gateway timing out, maybe a blip)
Done! ChrisA
On 5/22/19 3:36 AM, mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg) wrote:
On 21.05.2019 21:19, Matt Callaghan wrote:
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point.
What is the community's preference to that consideration?
The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems."
+1
I've now made that change at https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 and will continue updating it and relevant parts of the wiki (including some amount of deleting, merging, etc.) throughout Changeset's work on the Python 2 sunsetting. As a general matter of wiki-editing etiquette: I've read https://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiGuidelines#Etiquette and understand and appreciate the guidance. Since this is work I'm contracted with the PSF to perform, I'm going to try to move reasonably speedily to remove obsolete material; I figure it's available in the post's history if people need to retrieve it to reference or reuse elsewhere. But if a page is actively maintained, I will do what I can to contact page maintainers so they know what I'm up to and we can collaborate. -- Sumana Harihareswara Changeset Consulting https://changeset.nyc
On 07.08.2019 22:04, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
On 5/22/19 3:36 AM, mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg) wrote:
On 21.05.2019 21:19, Matt Callaghan wrote:
Thanks Chris - and I completely agree with your point.
What is the community's preference to that consideration?
The simplest solution I see is to add a "top header / block" that says the summary of: "It is Python3 going forward, officially as of Jan2020. This page is largely out of date, but kept for historical reference as it provides value for maintaining legacy Python2 systems."
+1
I've now made that change at https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 and will continue updating it and relevant parts of the wiki (including some amount of deleting, merging, etc.) throughout Changeset's work on the Python 2 sunsetting.
As a general matter of wiki-editing etiquette: I've read https://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiGuidelines#Etiquette and understand and appreciate the guidance. Since this is work I'm contracted with the PSF to perform, I'm going to try to move reasonably speedily to remove obsolete material; I figure it's available in the post's history if people need to retrieve it to reference or reuse elsewhere. But if a page is actively maintained, I will do what I can to contact page maintainers so they know what I'm up to and we can collaborate.
Please don't remove Python2 material, but instead move it to a Python 2 section or add a note that a page refers to Python 2 rather than Python 3. Pointing users to the wiki info section to retrieve this information is *not* a good idea. Please also note that while maintenance of Python 2 by the core dev team will stop, there still is a large user base out there using it and this will continue for at least another decade given how much code has been written for Python 2, which will not be ported to Python 3. We don't want to lose the existing Python 2 knowledge kept in the wiki. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Aug 12 2019)
Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/
::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/
participants (7)
-
Chris Angelico -
M.-A. Lemburg -
M.-A. Lemburg -
Mats Wichmann -
Matt Callaghan -
Steve Holden -
Sumana Harihareswara