Internal Server Error while reverting spam
Trying to back out the latest (spam) change to the MelbournePUG wiki page I'm getting an Internal Server Error response. I'd go look up the error message but I can never figure out where the log files live. Skip
On 1 December 2011 01:41, Skip Montanaro <skip@montanaro.dyndns.org> wrote:
Trying to back out the latest (spam) change to the MelbournePUG wiki page I'm getting an Internal Server Error response. I'd go look up the error message but I can never figure out where the log files live.
Thanks for the spam vigilance - I got a change notification email and the edit stuck so I wonder what could've caused the error? BTW why are bit.ly links disallowed in wiki pages? I definitely promote the j.mp URL these days over the bit.ly one but they're effectively the same (same company). Richard
Richard> Thanks for the spam vigilance - I got a change notification Richard> email and the edit stuck so I wonder what could've caused the Richard> error? That's a strange one. I eventually found the log file and saw the warning about bit.ly URLs, so I just deleted it. Richard> BTW why are bit.ly links disallowed in wiki pages? I definitely Richard> promote the j.mp URL these days over the bit.ly one but they're Richard> effectively the same (same company). It looks like Paul Boddie added added bit.ly, t.co and goo.gl as patterns in LocalBadContent back in October. His comment was Added some link-shorteners. These should never be used in this environment. I'll leave it for him to elaborate. I've CC'd him in case he's not on the pydotorg-www list. Skip
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:51 PM, <skip@pobox.com> wrote:
Richard> BTW why are bit.ly links disallowed in wiki pages? I definitely Richard> promote the j.mp URL these days over the bit.ly one but they're Richard> effectively the same (same company).
It looks like Paul Boddie added added bit.ly, t.co and goo.gl as patterns in LocalBadContent back in October. His comment was
Added some link-shorteners. These should never be used in this environment.
blacklisting them sounds reasonable to me. They are not needed for legitimate use. The content editor has (or can find) the real URL and use it. The person following the link will just click. If you allow them, spamers can use them at will and he whole LocalBadContent thing is kinda pointless. -- Carl K
On Thursday 01 December 2011 00:27:49 Richard Jones wrote:
On 1 December 2011 10:07, Carl Karsten <carl@personnelware.com> wrote:
They are not needed for legitimate use.
I respectfully disagree. It's significantly easier to promote:
j.mp/mpug
than
wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG
That may be the case, but *on* the Wiki, there's absolutely no reason why people can't use full URLs referring to the actual resource in question (but see my remarks below). The reason why I disallowed shortened URLs is that it's easy for people to post spam links and there be absolutely no initial indication that this is what they are. I certainly don't feel like checking random links to who-knows-where just because people don't want to be transparent about where they are linking to. I believe that such links primarily benefit spammers/scammers/tricksters (who don't want people to see where they are going) and people using Twitter (who are constrained by whichever architectural limitation that service still has), along with people needing to promote an easy-to-remember URL by word of mouth or on physical objects, potentially in that order. I accept that from trustworthy people like yourself, the promotional benefit outweighs the "I feel lucky" part of the experience that comes from using these URLs, but the balance is different when random people on the Internet are posting them to one's site. It is unfortunate if people don't get a nice error message if their edits are disallowed, but I am willing to improve that (without telling spammers how to defeat anti-spam mechanisms) if it would be appreciated - the "internal server error" probably shouldn't happen, and that may be fixed somehow by a review of the configuration. If you think that trusted users shouldn't be prevented from using shortened URLs that are mentioned for promotional purposes, say, then I am also willing to work towards a solution. This isn't empty rhetoric - I've already developed things like edit approval functionality for Moin, even though I doubt that it will ever be deployed because of cries of censorship or general inconvenience, just so that I have something to offer if/when people start to say that policing Wikis is too much work - so if you think that improvement is needed, I am prepared to spend some time making that improvement. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused, but please understand the motivation for eliminating what could easily be a source of significant additional work for those of us who volunteer to maintain this resource. Paul P.S. I also find it interesting that a bunch of people happily used domains leased from a now-defunct North African regime (some of whom walked the tightrope more happily than others, though) without any second thought, but that's a separate concern. Personally, I never gave it much thought myself, but then I largely ignored what the Web 2.0 crowd were doing until someone in the Mercurial community raised the matter in the context of mailing list messages.
Am 01.12.2011 00:27, schrieb Richard Jones:
On 1 December 2011 10:07, Carl Karsten <carl@personnelware.com> wrote:
They are not needed for legitimate use.
I respectfully disagree. It's significantly easier to promote:
j.mp/mpug
than
wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG
If you want to promote it, it doesn't need to be a hyperlink. IOW, you can have a link whose text label is j.mp/mpug for promotional purposes, yet has http://wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG as the link target. Regards, Martin
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Richard Jones <richard@python.org> wrote:
On 1 December 2011 10:07, Carl Karsten <carl@personnelware.com> wrote:
They are not needed for legitimate use.
I respectfully disagree. It's significantly easier to promote:
j.mp/mpug
than
wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG
And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody could adjust web-server configuration accordingly. -- anatoly t.
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly. There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki. As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into. Skip
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip@pobox.com wrote:
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly.
There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into.
Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki? Paul
Paul Boddie wrote:
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip@pobox.com wrote:
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly.
There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain: * Python wiki * Jython wiki * PSF wiki and perhaps more.
As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into.
Hmm, I still get the list (without the PSF wiki) as usual. Perhaps the change was reverted ?
Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki?
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 02 2011)
Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal@egenix.com> wrote:
Paul Boddie wrote:
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip@pobox.com wrote:
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could
adjust
web-server configuration accordingly.
There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
* Python wiki * Jython wiki * PSF wiki
and perhaps more.
That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to make the change.
As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into.
Hmm, I still get the list (without the PSF wiki) as usual. Perhaps the change was reverted ?
Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki?
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com
Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 02 2011)
Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::
eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal@egenix.com> wrote:
Paul Boddie wrote:
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip@pobox.com wrote:
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could
adjust
web-server configuration accordingly.
There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
* Python wiki * Jython wiki * PSF wiki
and perhaps more.
That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to make the change.
Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 02 2011)
Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
On Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal@egenix.com> wrote:
Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal@egenix.com> wrote:
Paul Boddie wrote:
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip@pobox.com wrote:
anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could
adjust
web-server configuration accordingly.
There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python
wiki.
Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes
sense
to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
* Python wiki * Jython wiki * PSF wiki
and perhaps more.
That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to make the change.
Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ?
It's not a technical term, I meant it literally. Basically you can configure the web server so that the urls of those other wikis lead to the respective applications, while all other urls lead to the default python wiki. I think it doesn't even require rewrite rules, as scriptalias directives are evaluated in order of occurence. We would of course still have a redirect from the old /moin url.
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com
Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 02 2011)
Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::
eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
Paul> Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki? Indeed it does. I didn't know it existed. Thx, Skip
participants (9)
-
"Martin v. Löwis" -
anatoly techtonik -
Carl Karsten -
M.-A. Lemburg -
Paul Boddie -
Radomir Dopieralski -
Richard Jones -
Skip Montanaro -
skip＠pobox.com