Does the PyPA/PSF have a tidelift/hyperwallet account ?
Hi all, I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated. Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ? Best, -- Matthias 1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip
Hi, Matthias! On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 5:32 PM Matthias Bussonnier <bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated.
Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ?
Best, -- Matthias
1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip
Yes. There's already a PyPA-Tidelift partnership with the PSF as the fiscal sponsor. I believe these are all the previous discussions on the topic: - https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pypa-committers@python.org/thread/GT47... - https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pypa-committers@python.org/thread/GO3B... - https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pypa-committers@python.org/thread/TJSZ... -- Warm regards, Sviatoslav Sydorenko Software Hacker @ Ansible Core --- https://useplaintext.email/ () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ---
Huh, pip shouldn't be lifted already; unless I'm misunderstanding something. I'll reach out to Tidelift support and see what they have to say about who is listed as the lifter because I don't believe any pip maintainer is (at least, not that I'm aware of!). On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:23 PM Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated.
Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ?
Best, -- Matthias
1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip _______________________________________________ PyPA-Committers mailing list -- pypa-committers@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to pypa-committers-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/pypa-committers.python.org/ Member address: pradyunsg@gmail.com
Thanks all, I got some private replies already and have mails from Phyllis and tidelift already to lift the package and send the funds to the PyPA account. That is strange for PIP, as far as I can tell tidelift does check the lifters can publish packages. Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ? -- Matthias On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 23:57, Pradyun Gedam <pradyunsg@gmail.com> wrote:
Huh, pip shouldn't be lifted already; unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I'll reach out to Tidelift support and see what they have to say about who is listed as the lifter because I don't believe any pip maintainer is (at least, not that I'm aware of!).
On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:23 PM Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated.
Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ?
Best, -- Matthias
1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip _______________________________________________ PyPA-Committers mailing list -- pypa-committers@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to pypa-committers-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/pypa-committers.python.org/ Member address: pradyunsg@gmail.com
I think having such a page is a good idea indeed and packaging.python.org is likely the best place to do so. On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, 09:37 Matthias Bussonnier, < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks all,
I got some private replies already and have mails from Phyllis and tidelift already to lift the package and send the funds to the PyPA account. That is strange for PIP, as far as I can tell tidelift does check the lifters can publish packages.
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ? -- Matthias
On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 23:57, Pradyun Gedam <pradyunsg@gmail.com> wrote:
Huh, pip shouldn't be lifted already; unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I'll reach out to Tidelift support and see what they have to say about who is listed as the lifter because I don't believe any pip maintainer is (at least, not that I'm aware of!).
On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:23 PM Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated.
Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ?
Best, -- Matthias
1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip _______________________________________________ PyPA-Committers mailing list -- pypa-committers@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to pypa-committers-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/pypa-committers.python.org/ Member address: pradyunsg@gmail.com
Sure good idea, https://github.com/pypa/packaging.python.org/pull/1322 On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 11:10, Pradyun Gedam <pradyunsg@gmail.com> wrote:
I think having such a page is a good idea indeed and packaging.python.org is likely the best place to do so.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, 09:37 Matthias Bussonnier, < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks all,
I got some private replies already and have mails from Phyllis and tidelift already to lift the package and send the funds to the PyPA account. That is strange for PIP, as far as I can tell tidelift does check the lifters can publish packages.
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ? -- Matthias
On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 23:57, Pradyun Gedam <pradyunsg@gmail.com> wrote:
Huh, pip shouldn't be lifted already; unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I'll reach out to Tidelift support and see what they have to say about who is listed as the lifter because I don't believe any pip maintainer is (at least, not that I'm aware of!).
On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:23 PM Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I realised that a couple of PyPA projects have some unclaimed funds available on Tidelift[1]. And that some projects like pip[3] are already lifted, but I can't see by whom. I already lift a few other projects on tidelift (IPython, traitlets) and have the funds sent to NumFOCUS. As a maintainer of Flit, I would be happy to also lift Flit on tidelift and have the money sent to a PyPA/PSF account if there is one. Tidelift says that would be in the order of $250/month [2]. In my experience, the amount is a bit inflated.
Does any of you know if PyPA or the PSF already receive money from tidelift, or who I could ask? Is there any objection or concern about me doing the above ?
Best, -- Matthias
1: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/build, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/trove-classifiers, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/distlib, https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pyproject-hooks 2: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/flit 3: https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pip _______________________________________________ PyPA-Committers mailing list -- pypa-committers@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to pypa-committers-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/pypa-committers.python.org/ Member address: pradyunsg@gmail.com
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ?
I'm a little uncomfortable about this even so. Tidelift give no indication on the project page that only certain individuals have committed to providing the guarantees Tidelift expect. So there's going to be an expectation from users - and particularly from users who have *paid Tidelift* for the guarantees - that the project as a whole will stand by those guarantees. I think such a page needs to be clear that the *project* is lifted, and the named individuals have taken on the responsibility for maintaining the Tidelift guarantees. I think that PyPA projects (and pip in particular) should not be lifted unless all of the project maintainers have agreed that lifting is OK, and that the project has the capacity to provide the stated guarantees, even if some project maintainers are not willing to make that commitment individually. And there should be some process for the project to withdraw from lifting if the maintainers' views change. Paul
On 25. Oct 2023, at 12:23, Paul Moore <p.f.moore@gmail.com> wrote:
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ?
I'm a little uncomfortable about this even so. Tidelift give no indication on the project page that only certain individuals have committed to providing the guarantees Tidelift expect. So there's going to be an expectation from users - and particularly from users who have *paid Tidelift* for the guarantees - that the project as a whole will stand by those guarantees.
I think such a page needs to be clear that the *project* is lifted, and the named individuals have taken on the responsibility for maintaining the Tidelift guarantees.
I think that PyPA projects (and pip in particular) should not be lifted unless all of the project maintainers have agreed that lifting is OK, and that the project has the capacity to provide the stated guarantees, even if some project maintainers are not willing to make that commitment individually. And there should be some process for the project to withdraw from lifting if the maintainers' views change.
I concur with this, it seems like Phyllis should be able to shed some light on how this gotten away from the individual project maintainers like this. It seems particularly not great given pip’s reach in the community and Tidelift having an edge to promote to its customers that pip is being lifted by their platform. IMO this is in direct violation of the intents and purposes of PSF’s fiscal sponsorship program. Jannis
Thanks for the feedback, In my original proposal for the list of who lifts what, it would be mostly for PyPA members themselves to have this information. I'm ok for it being in a private repository or any other privately available resource without having to dig through mailing list or bother someone to get this information. On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 12:38, Jannis Leidel <jannis.leidel@pyfound.org> wrote:
On 25. Oct 2023, at 12:23, Paul Moore <p.f.moore@gmail.com> wrote:
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ?
I'm a little uncomfortable about this even so. Tidelift give no indication on the project page that only certain individuals have committed to providing the guarantees Tidelift expect. So there's going to be an expectation from users - and particularly from users who have *paid Tidelift* for the guarantees - that the project as a whole will stand by those guarantees.
I think such a page needs to be clear that the *project* is lifted, and the named individuals have taken on the responsibility for maintaining the Tidelift guarantees.
I think that PyPA projects (and pip in particular) should not be lifted unless all of the project maintainers have agreed that lifting is OK, and that the project has the capacity to provide the stated guarantees, even if some project maintainers are not willing to make that commitment individually. And there should be some process for the project to withdraw from lifting if the maintainers' views change.
I concur with this, it seems like Phyllis should be able to shed some light on how this gotten away from the individual project maintainers like this. It seems particularly not great given pip’s reach in the community and Tidelift having an edge to promote to its customers that pip is being lifted by their platform. IMO this is in direct violation of the intents and purposes of PSF’s fiscal sponsorship program.
Jannis
Pradyun, Did you figure out who was lifting pip ? -- Matthias On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 14:22, Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback,
In my original proposal for the list of who lifts what, it would be mostly for PyPA members themselves to have this information. I'm ok for it being in a private repository or any other privately available resource without having to dig through mailing list or bother someone to get this information.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 12:38, Jannis Leidel <jannis.leidel@pyfound.org> wrote:
On 25. Oct 2023, at 12:23, Paul Moore <p.f.moore@gmail.com> wrote:
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ?
I'm a little uncomfortable about this even so. Tidelift give no indication on the project page that only certain individuals have committed to providing the guarantees Tidelift expect. So there's going to be an expectation from users - and particularly from users who have *paid Tidelift* for the guarantees - that the project as a whole will stand by those guarantees.
I think such a page needs to be clear that the *project* is lifted, and the named individuals have taken on the responsibility for maintaining the Tidelift guarantees.
I think that PyPA projects (and pip in particular) should not be lifted unless all of the project maintainers have agreed that lifting is OK, and that the project has the capacity to provide the stated guarantees, even if some project maintainers are not willing to make that commitment individually. And there should be some process for the project to withdraw from lifting if the maintainers' views change.
I concur with this, it seems like Phyllis should be able to shed some light on how this gotten away from the individual project maintainers like this. It seems particularly not great given pip’s reach in the community and Tidelift having an edge to promote to its customers that pip is being lifted by their platform. IMO this is in direct violation of the intents and purposes of PSF’s fiscal sponsorship program.
Jannis
I did, yes. It's the PSF. On Mon, 6 Nov 2023, 10:55 Matthias Bussonnier, <bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Pradyun,
Did you figure out who was lifting pip ? -- Matthias
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 14:22, Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatthias@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback,
In my original proposal for the list of who lifts what, it would be mostly for PyPA members themselves to have this information. I'm ok for it being in a private repository or any other privately available resource without having to dig through mailing list or bother someone to get this information.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 12:38, Jannis Leidel <jannis.leidel@pyfound.org> wrote:
On 25. Oct 2023, at 12:23, Paul Moore <p.f.moore@gmail.com> wrote:
Would it be worth having a page somewhere on PyPA repositories where we list which packages are lifted by whom ?
I'm a little uncomfortable about this even so. Tidelift give no indication on the project page that only certain individuals have committed to providing the guarantees Tidelift expect. So there's going to be an expectation from users - and particularly from users who have *paid Tidelift* for the guarantees - that the project as a whole will stand by those guarantees.
I think such a page needs to be clear that the *project* is lifted, and the named individuals have taken on the responsibility for maintaining the Tidelift guarantees.
I think that PyPA projects (and pip in particular) should not be lifted unless all of the project maintainers have agreed that lifting is OK, and that the project has the capacity to provide the stated guarantees, even if some project maintainers are not willing to make that commitment individually. And there should be some process for the project to withdraw from lifting if the maintainers' views change.
I concur with this, it seems like Phyllis should be able to shed some light on how this gotten away from the individual project maintainers like this. It seems particularly not great given pip’s reach in the community and Tidelift having an edge to promote to its customers that pip is being lifted by their platform. IMO this is in direct violation of the intents and purposes of PSF’s fiscal sponsorship program.
Jannis
participants (5)
-
Jannis Leidel -
Matthias Bussonnier -
Paul Moore -
Pradyun Gedam -
Sviatoslav Sydorenko