Mailman 3 August 2004 - pypy-dev

Re: [pypy-dev] Yet another trace tool!
by Armin Rigo 31 Aug '04

31 Aug '04

Hi Richard, On Sat, Aug 28, 2004 at 10:22:31PM +0100, Richard Emslie wrote: > Also BTW you can't overload c++ return types - unless you know something I > don't. That's right, but it's not necessary. The C version (genc.h) has a type code for return type too (e.g. OP_ADD_iii) but that's only so that typer.py can know what the return type will be, and convert it if needed. In general I don't think we need to overload on the return type. If we define only: Int op_add(const Int&, const Int&) Ref op_add(const Ref&, const Ref&) and then do: someref = op_add(someint, someint) then the first signature will be choosen and the return type will be automatically converted from Int to Ref, which is fine. Armin

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Yet another trace tool!
by Richard Emslie 29 Aug '04

29 Aug '04

Hi PyPy-ers, After seeing Armin's flow viewer I got the motivation to look at translation. What was suppose to be gencpp.py turned into another trace tool. ;-) To run go to translator/tool and run flowtrace.py ! There is a debug flag to FlowTracer which will give you some idea what is actully being traced! Well - back to gencpp.py then. :-) Cheers, Richard PS I am wondering if we should create a top level hacks folder to save polluting our code base with lots of little noddy scripts? Or do I have free reign to check in what and where I like? :-)

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Re: [pypy-dev] Re: C functions in CPython/Modules
by Laura Creighton 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

In a message of Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:50:24 BST, Michael Hudson writes: >Laura Creighton <lac(a)strakt.com> writes: > >> Do these lot have unittests someplace? I cannot seem to find any. > >I'm unsure what you're asking. If you are talking about the C modules >that live in the .../src/python/Modules/*.c files in the Python source >distribution then their unitests are in Lib/test/test_*.py like >everything else. There's also Modules/_testcapimodule.c for the tests >that have to be written in C (these are run by >Lib/test/test_capimodule.py). > >If that doesn't answer your question, then I obviously didn't >understand it. > >Cheers, >mwh It's Lib/test/test_capimodule.py I was looking for. Thank you. Laura

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C functions in CPython/Modules
by Laura Creighton 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Do these lot have unittests someplace? I cannot seem to find any. Laura

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genpyrex -> genc ?
by Armin Rigo 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Hello, Perhaps generating Pyrex code isn't such a great idea. The great idea was to use CPython as an intermediate target. But writing C extension modules in C instead of in Pyrex is quite possibly much cleaner, because: * very basic C code is sufficient; * removing yet another intermediate step might not be a bad idea for clarity; * reference counting is easy because we know exactly when variables get out of scope: when they reach the end of a basic block and are not sent to the next block; * we don't have to work around various Pyrex restrictions (or hack Pyrex to lift them); * most importantly, the whole mess with the "class Op" in genpyrex.py can probably be completely omitted, because we can use C macros and generate just a succession of OP_XXX(a,b,c) where XXX is the operation name and a,b,c are the arguments. Mapping the operations to actual C code is done once and for all in a C header file with macro definitions. A quick-test (borring from genpyrex.py) is checked in a branch in http://www.codespeak.net/svn/pypy/branch/pypy-genc/ producing (not yet compilable) C code that looks like the attached example. It looks much like assembler code. It's quite readable and easy to map to the original flow graph, too. Not sure what to do now. Does this look like a good idea? A bientôt, Armin.

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PyPy for restricted execution Python
by Christopher Armstrong 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

I want to have a function along these lines: safeEval(code, ns={'name': obj}, operations=['import', 'def', 'for', 'while']) It'll execute 'code', with only access to the names in 'ns' dict, and only the operations listed in the 'operations' list. This function would be called from a regular CPython interpreter, and safeEval would be an interface to PyPy. My end goal is to have potentially hundreds of *totally* untrusted scripts running concurrently; they shouldn't be able to stomp on each other or on the "main" application code. CPU and memory restriction are a big issue, but I'm only concerned with namespace and operation restriction at the moment. The core of any restricted system needs to be able to start code in an absolutely empty environment, not allowing anything at all. Then I can add operations and functions necessary for my application after I do the Hard Work of auditing each one ;) This is the same reason I was recently working (well, somewhat.. ;) on PLT-Spy[1], an implementation of Python on PLT-Scheme. It compiled the Python to Scheme code which has calls to a Python runtime implemented for PLT. The Python runtime does 99% of its work by calling out to libpython, i.e., CPython. So, this let me have my cake and eat it too: I could take advantage of PLT's awesome restricted-execution support, *and* I could use CPython without reimplementing the whole runtime. But it wasn't _that_ simple: we have to modify some fundamental parts of CPython to interoperate with PLT. The garbage collection and namespace functions, in particular. I'm hoping I can entirely avoid C code by using PyPy and still be able to use the stock Python runtime. PyPy is confusing to me so far, though. I've worked with several implementations of small languages, including a tiny lisp meant for restricted execution, and even an implementation of Python (PLT-Spy). I can't seem to get my brain integrated with the PyPy codebase, yet, but I'm not sure where to start. So, given that explanation of my goal, where should I start? What might I have to change in PyPy? How can I get an analog of pypy.interpreter.main.run_string that lets me restrict what's available to the code? Thanks for any help :-) 1: http://plt-spy.sourceforge.net/ -- Twisted | Christopher Armstrong: International Man of Twistery Radix | Release Manager, Twisted Project ---------+ http://radix.twistedmatrix.com

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translate_pypy.py
by Armin Rigo 16 Aug '04

16 Aug '04

Hi, I've played a bit with interactive graph browsing in Pygame. Try out the new version of src/goal/translate_pypy.py. It analyzes a bit of PyPy (still not sure why only this bit), then display the the call graph (where nodes are functions) and the class hierarchy. Clicking on a function gives you the function's usual flow graph. Clicking on a class shows you the inferred attributes. The goal of the recent changes were also to make it practical to browse large graphs. We should be able not to get lost now. The main method of navigation is to click on a node or a connecting edge, which goes there. Use the left arrow key to come back. If you wish to, as before, you can also click'n'drag (left button to zoom, right button to scroll). A bientôt, Armin.

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Prothon on PyPy? (was:Prothon on CPython intrepreter?)
by Christian Tismer 15 Aug '04

15 Aug '04

Mark Hahn wrote: > Christian Tismer wrote: > > >>Prothon is different enough to be an other target language. >>This would enhance our ideas and the implementations, because >>if we have to support different concepts, we will find better >>building blocks and better abstraction. >> >>Without having talked to the rest of the group, I am >>pretty sure that we all would be glad to open a Prothon >>branch in PyPy. > > > I flattered once again. Feel free. > > What would this require me to do? Joining the group, learn svn, create a sub-project, discuss it, find out what we are trying to implement, find out how Prothon's needs can be built in. On the latter, I think this will not be that much. You need a new object space and a different interpreter. At least I think it makes sense for you to talk in pypy-dev. > Would I be paid some of those euros? :-) I guess no, not in this round, unless someone drops off whom we need to replace, but you can join the sponsored group when we apply for the next funding. Well, you would need to be European, or employed by a European firm or institution. We are trying to get Tim Peters in for that, for instance. > Seriously though, I'd be happy to help out however I can. It is less about helping out, but more like getting something. You might just enjoy to have prothon as another target, and it will run on whatever implementation framework we build. Java is quite likely, .net is possible. PyPy-ers, I'd be interested to see Mark in our project, at least on the list. ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

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Re: [pypy-dev] Ever since we nuked (nearly all of) our spam in the pypy-dev archive
by Laura Creighton 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

In a message of Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:36:01 BST, Armin Rigo writes: >Which reminds me to ask you how ready for PyPy you think the test convers >ion >tool is. If I remember correctly the point still holding us was differen >t: >how to actually run app-level tests. I don't remember where we left the >question. In fact, pypy/tool/pypyutest.py looks like the solution (which > we >hacked in the post-EuroPython days) but I don't remember how complete tha >t is. > > >A bientôt, > >Armin. The tool works great. It converted our whole tree without error. I tried it on the source trees of a few other projects as well, and haven't found any errors in more than a month, I think. (Actually, I commented out the part that does assertRaises, since I don't have a 'raises' yet.) What I think is left to do is to remove the lines that say 'import unittest' and substitute whatever magic you need to put in the file to get the new test framework -- assuming there is any. I don't know how complete pypy/tool/pypyutest.py is, either. Laura

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Ever since we nuked (nearly all of) our spam in the pypy-dev archive
by Laura Creighton 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

all of our links to articles in the pypy-dev archive have been broken. I'm fixing them now. Right now I am in doc/devel/testdesign.txt, and I have found a dangling ReST reference: after: Command line tool test_all but before: New unit testing framework (not ready yet) There is this thing: _mail: http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2003q2/000789.html This is a note from Armin saying he likes the Oscon Paper, which doesn't seem to fit there at all. But nothing refers to mail ... does anybody remember writing this, what it was for, and what I should do with it? I also changed the text to reflect the fact that the Standard Object Space is what you get when you don't specify what you are running ... Laura

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