Mailman 3 October 2005 - pypy-dev

Praise heaped on PyPy
by Grig Gheorghiu 16 Oct '05

16 Oct '05

I'm sure you guys have all seen this by now, but just in case you haven't: http://dirtsimple.org/2005/10/children-of-lesser-python.html Grig

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pypy paris sprint report day 3.25
by Michael Hudson 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

After the excrutiatingly entertaining consortium meeting/break day yesterday, we resumed this morning with a status meeting. The stackless group reported good progress, having compiled a working pypy-c with stackless support and implemented stack overflow detection for non-stackless builds. Unfortunately for the stackless builds, several CPOython tests expect infinite recursion to result in an error -- and do so fairly quickly, i.e. in less time than it takes to fill the entire heap with stack frames. This group's work is basically done for this sprint, although Anders and Christian are going to work on compliancy testing with the new pypy-c. While waiting for builds targeting compliancy tests, they are also going to investigate reorganizing code generation to improve locality. The ootype group is also progressing well. The RTyper has mostly been refactored to be independent of the targeted type system and work is continuing on implementing the new OOType type system alongside the existing LLType target. This group will be continuing, although with somehwat different membership -- Michael joining and half of each of Samuele and Arre leaving. Michael and Andrew's work on the PPC backend has progressed to the point where essentially any function that only manipulates integers can be translated (with an exceedingly stupid register allocator). Further work depends to a large extent on the llinterpreter work (see below) so this work will wait until after the sprint. Andrew is moving to work on implementing a Numeric-a-like for PyPy, together with Ludovic. The LLInterpreter grouplette (Carl and 0.5 Armins and a little Holger) did not produce much code since there are many decisions to be made and the implications of these decisions are not understood. A discussion group of Carl, Armin, Samuele, Holger, Christian and Arre will try to shine lights into these shadows, and report after lunch. Valentino and Amaury are going to implement the socket module. This is a step towards allowing Valentino to run Twisted on PyPy and thus make him very happy. This sprint is working in quite a different way to previous sprints -- there is lots of discussion which isn't new, but the farming off of discussion to groups of 5-6 people who present a report to the larger group is a novelty and seems to be working well (15+ people is too many for a focussed technical discussion). Another difference is a less strict emphasis on "pair" programming -- or, if you like, we are still pair programming but we have redefined "pair" to mean a group of two to six programmers :) Cheers, mwh & cfbolz -- Linux: Horse. Like a wild horse, fun to ride. Also prone to throwing you and stamping you into the ground because it doesn't like your socks. -- Jim's pedigree of operating systems, asr

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[Fwd: python not as robust...?]
by Christian Tismer 13 Oct '05

13 Oct '05

Hi friends, I have no clue if stackless would have this problem. PyPy probably not -- it is large enough :-) ciao - chris http://www.rp-online.de/public/bildershow/nachrichten/wissenschaft/10752 -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

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paris sprint report day 1.5
by Michael Hudson 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

Hi pypy-dev! The largest PyPy sprint yet (in terms of attendants) began yesterday here at Logilab in Paris. The morning (once everyone had found their way/fought with the metro/...) began with a tutorial for the newcomers and two discussion groups -- one on implementing stackless-like functionality and one titled "towards a translatable llinterpreter". After lunch, everyone met to hear the results of the discussion groups and decide what to do next. The stackless group's conclusion was "it'll be easy!" :) The llinterp group concluded "it might be doable". More details can be found in svn at http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/paris-2005-stackless-disc… http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/paris/tllinterpreter_plan… (consistency? We're researchers!) Christian (he didn't get a choice), Valentino, Anders (L), Adrien, Armin and Amaury became the stackless working group and by Tuesday lunchtime had progressed via an unlikely sounding six-person-pair programming methodology involving a beamer to a fully stackless C translation, albeit with limited functionality visible even to RPython. Samuele, Bert, Arre, Aurelien, and Boris became what was ultimately known as the 'ootype group' working on a variation of the rtyper more suited to translation to a language with a richer type system than C (classes, lists, some vague notion of type safety, etc) such as Java, Smalltalk, ... Michael and Andrew worked on a backend that emits machine code -- in particular ppc32 machine code -- directly. By the end of Monday a toy function doing some simple integer calculations had been translated but on Tuesday restructuring towards re-use (and comprehensibility) became the main goal. Oh, and not assuming an infinite supply of registers... Carl and Holger started implementing Addresses in the C backend to prepare for the coming llinterpreter work, finishing on Monday evening. Carl then worked on data structures needed for a translatable llinterpreter. Cheers, mwh & cfbolz -- As it seems to me, in Perl you have to be an expert to correctly make a nested data structure like, say, a list of hashes of instances. In Python, you have to be an idiot not to be able to do it, because you just write it down. -- Peter Norvig, comp.lang.functional

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bug in http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/FrontPage?action=show
by Laura Creighton 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

If you click on the 'documentation' link you get a traceback! ooops. I will look at this later unless somebody beats me to it. Laura

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Problems with includes in translating the interpreter
by Elmo Mäntynen 08 Oct '05

08 Oct '05

Compilation stopped and complained about not finding gc.h. Trying to find a quick solution, I hardcoded /usr/include/gc to genc.py at line 108. With that I get an healthy looking >>>>. I don't think it should be like that. I also get this warning, incase you have missed it: """ In file included from /usr/include/python2.4/Python.h:8, from /home/drayko/Workfolder/Security/Python/cvs/pypy-dist/pypy/translator/c/src/g_prerequisite.h:12, from testing_1.c:4: /usr/include/python2.4/pyconfig.h:832:1: warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined In file included from /usr/include/gc/gc.h:472, from testing_1.c:2: /usr/include/features.h:190:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition """

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Test failures
by Ben.Young＠risk.sungard.com 08 Oct '05

08 Oct '05

Hi Everyone, Here's the current windows test results. Only 2 failures, with nothing too important it seems! Cheers, Ben

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Re: [pypy-svn] r18227 - in pypy/dist/pypy/translator/js: . test
by Martijn Faassen 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

ericvrp(a)codespeak.net wrote: > Let me be ambitious by adding a Javascript backend. > > This is at the moment still a stripped down version of the llvm backend > and as such does not work! Whoah, cool stuff! If this can eventually be made to work reliably across the major browsers and with some semblance of performance this will make a lot of people happy, I expect. :) I realize though that this is a tall order. Still, an interesting experiment! Regards, Martijn

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Bad news from the gc front
by Christian Tismer 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

Hi Armin, we thought we had solved it. Alas, there is something else. I said I tested it, and I did of course, but the result depends on what you are doing in which order. I tested a few smaller cases first, but this is a trap, see below. On my 1.25 GB laptop, this one crashes: Python 2.4.1 (pypy 0.7.1 build 18236) on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. (InteractiveConsole) >>>> import sys >>>> for i in range(100): x=range(10**7); print i,;sys.stdout.flush() 0 1 2 3 4 <crash> But if I do a little play before, it works! Note that the 10**6 line does not suffice once. I need it twice to avoid the crash! Python 2.4.1 (pypy 0.7.1 build 18236) on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. (InteractiveConsole) >>>> x=range(10**6) >>>> x=range(10**6) >>>> import sys >>>> for i in range(100): x=range(10**7); print i,;sys.stdout.flush() 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19^C D:\pypy\dist\pypy\translator\goal> There is constant memory usage after the fourth iteration. Something weird is going on, and my feeling about Boehm gc varies :-/ cheers - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

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sync-meeting 05/10/06
by Christian Tismer 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

Hi colleagues, about today's sync meeting: Holger is probably not joining since he is setting up in Paris. Bea asked to add the following topic: > Since we have 3 "newcomers" as well as possible Logilab staff being > interested (they are planning to have others working in wp 9,10) we should > put some effort into the start up tutorial on the 10th (we also need to do > presentations and goals - then tutorials and planned work).... > > Could you discuss this on the next sync-meeting - who does it and what to > focus on? > > Also - in the upcoming consortium meeting we are to talk about phase 2 and > plan the work. I am thinking that this shouldnt be discussed in that kind > of meeting - rather a more informal technical one....what do you think? Regular topics -------------- * activity reports (3 prepared lines of info) * resolve conflicts/blockers Here is my draft proposal of Topics of the week ------------------ Tutorial on the 10th of October Who does it, and what to focus on? Marketing (left from last meeting, copied here) As a derivative of a previous topic ("making money"), I am trying to get some danish technical magazines to write about pypy. It occured to me that maybe we should make a press release when we pass a milestone next time. Please add/correct as you see fit. Sorry about this late announcement, we have the house full of guests, my wife's anniversary. ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

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