Mailman 3 February 2008 - pypy-dev

Sun's Open JDK Challenge http://openjdk.java.net/challenge/
by Laura Creighton 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

When Sun announced this, I sent mail to John Rose at Sun, to see if work on the Da Vinci Machine http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/ for Python and PyPy support would be acceptable. The answer is favourable. I wonder, who would be interested in making a team to work on the challenge? And what would you think would make a good proposal? Laura

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Deadline extension: Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) 2008
by "Martin v. Löwis" 17 Feb '08

17 Feb '08

Please note that the deadline for paper submissions to the Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) 2008 has been extended. The new submission deadline in now *** February 24, 2008 *** For more information on S3, please visit http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/s3/ Regards, Kim Rose and Robert Hirschfeld -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= [Call for Papers] *** Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) 2008 *** May 15-16, 2008 Potsdam, Germany http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/s3/ -- Call for papers: The Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) is a forum for discussion of topics relating to computer systems and languages that are able to bootstrap, implement, modify, and maintain themselves. One property of these systems is that their implementation is based on small but powerful abstractions; examples include (amongst others) Squeak/Smalltalk, COLA, Klein/Self, PyPy/Python, Rubinius/Ruby, and Lisp. Such systems are the engines of their own replacement, giving researchers and developers great power to experiment with, and explore future directions from within, their own small language kernels. S3 will be take place May 15-16, 2008 at the Hasso-Plattner-Institute in Potsdam, Germany. It is an exciting opportunity for researchers and practitioners interested in self-sustaining systems to meet and share their knowledge, experience, and ideas for future research and development. -- Invited talk: Ian Piumarta: Late-bound Object Lambda Architectures (Viewpoints Research Institute, USA) -- Submissions and proceedings: S3 invites submissions of high-quality papers reporting original research, or describing innovative contributions to, or experience with, self-sustaining systems, their implementation, and their application. Papers that depart significantly from established ideas and practices are particularly welcome. Submissions must not have been published previously and must not be under review for any another refereed event or publication. The program committee will evaluate each contributed paper based on its relevance, significance, clarity, and originality. Revised papers will be published as post-proceedings in the Springer LNCS series. Papers should be submitted electronically via EasyChair at http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=s3 in PDF format. Submissions must be written in English (the official language of the workshop) and must not exceed 20 pages. They should use the LNCS format, templates for which are available at http://www.springer.de/comp/lncs/authors.html. -- Venue: Hasso-Plattner-Institut (Potsdam, Germany) -- Important dates: Submission of papers: February 24, 2008 Author notification: April 11, 2008 Revised papers due: April 25, 2008 S3 workshop: May 15-16, 2008 Final papers for LNCS post-proceedings due: June 6, 2008 -- Chairs: * Robert Hirschfeld (Hasso-Plattner-Institut Potsdam, Germany) * Kim Rose (Viewpoints Research Institute, USA) -- Program committee: * Johan Brichau, Universite Catholique de Louvain, Belgium * Pascal Costanza, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium * Wolfgang De Meuter, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium * Stephane Ducasse, INRIA Lille, France * Michael Haupt, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany * Robert Hirschfeld, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany * Dan Ingalls, Sun Microsystems Laboratories, USA * Martin von Löwis, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany * Hidehiko Masuhara, University of Tokyo, Japan * Ian Piumarta, Viewpoints Research Institute, USA * David Ungar, IBM, USA -- Registration fees: Early (until April 18, 2008) * Regular participants: EUR 160 * Students: EUR 80 Late (after April 18, 2008) * Regular participants: EUR 170 * Students: EUR 90

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Showed up in the mail
by Laura Creighton 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Somebody's making a book about how technology gets done. If we want to write up Sprint Driven Development and try to get it out to the world, this could be a place to do it. Laura ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: imeti2008(a)mail.infocybereng.org Delivery-Date: Sat Feb 16 02:40:38 2008 Return-Path: <imeti2008(a)mail.infocybereng.org> Subject: Inviting you to share your opinion and to participate in a project on Engineering and Meta-engineering Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:31:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Laura Creighton, We would like to inform you about the "Project on an Integral and Integrative Perspective on Engineering and Meta-Engineering" which will mainly contain several publications, empirical research, and conferences organization. We appreciate if you can share your opinion with us with regards to this issue. You can do so by filling the inquiry form at: http://www.iiis.org/inquiry/b.asp?t=u11&e=LAC@OPENEND.SE It will require no more than one minute of your valuable time. We would also like to inform you that, in the context of this project, we have already decided to 1) publish a book with the tentative title of "Reflections on Engineering and Meta-Engineering for the XXI Century", and 2) organize The First International Multi-Conference on Engineering and Technological Innovation (IMETI 2008; http://www.infocybereng.org/imeti2008). Consequently, any information regarding your potential participation in any of these two activities will be highly appreciated. The rational supporting and motivating this project can be found in the article "The Essence of Engineering and Meta-Engineering: A Work in Progress" available at http://www.iiis.org/Nagib-Callaos/Engineering-and-Meta-Engineering Best regards, Prof. Nagib C.Callaos IMETI 2008 General Chair www.sciiis.org/Nagib-Callaos If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please send an email to imeti.remove(a)mail.infocybereng.org with REMOVE IMETI in the subject line Address: Torre Profesional La California, Av. Francisco de Miranda, Caracas, Venezuela. ------- End of Forwarded Message

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(no subject)
by Ben.Young＠sungard.com 15 Feb '08

15 Feb '08

Hi, I was trying to access the web based irc client at http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/irc/irc.cgi, that Michael very kindly set up for me, but it doesn't appear to work anymore. Does anyone know a way of accessing #pypy through the web? The question I was going to ask is "are you working with Thomas Heller on the ctypes port?" It seems to me he would be able to sort out a lot of you lifetime / conversion questions very quickly? Have you tried to contact him before? Cheers, Ben Ben Young - Senior Software Engineer SunGard - Enterprise House, Vision Park, Histon, Cambridge, CB24 9ZR Tel +44 1223 266042 - Main +44 1223 266100 - http://www.sungard.com/ CONFIDENTIALITY: This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email from your system. Thank you.

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localized help
by daol 14 Feb '08

14 Feb '08

Hi there, I'm after selection of a terminal project for school, but the fact now is that I'm not versed in pypy or even language/compilers design&implementation, still is an area that attract me and I would like to do "something" useful/interesting (who not?) in pypy (for the moment the more viable project is implement a language on top of pypy, still I don't know if it will turn into other approach). Thus the option that I have is to find people near where I live that I can talk to and perhaps meet not only online, my hope is that some of you know some people in México. Have a nice day or night.

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Python on the Lego NXT
by Stargaming 09 Feb '08

09 Feb '08

Hi PyPyers, Lego has been developing robotics for quite a while now. Their latest robot is the "Lego Mindstorms NXT." Unfortunately, its programming capabilities are quite restricted_ -- with the standard firmware_ (open source, BTW), state of the art programming is done in a C-like language, NXC_, translated to an assembly-esque language, NBC_. Now I want to use Python rather than NXC, but it currently only works via a socket_ (which requires USB or Bluetooth) and live bytecode instructions. I figured this could be possible with PyPy. Previous advice I got from #pypy pointed out that this is indeed an application where PyPy could be used but the Python interpreter *might* be too heavy for this little machine. I have asked_ an unofficial Lego Robotics mailing list as well (no reply yet). There are several layers one could translate Python code (or rather flow graphs?) to: Either NXC, a language pretty close to C. Chances are high that translation to this layer might be trivial (tokenize Python and generate NXC instructions), no PyPy involved at all. The next layer is NBC, assembly code for the standard compiler. This can be compiled to NXT bytecode_, which is rather close to real PC opcodes (not Python bytecode, unfortunately). See my posting to the Lego Robotics mailing list for detailed descriptions of these proposals. As already stated in the Lego ML, translating the whole Python interpreter might be too heavy for the NXT_ brick's storage (see below, one quarter MB). Translating every program itself (and thus, writing them in RPython), might be too expensive (considering translation time). Writing a firmware just seems crazy. My question: Do you think this would be a Good Thing to do with PyPy? While I wrote these two postings, the idea of just tokenizing Python and generating NXC began looking better with every second. Is there any obvious solution I'm missing? Sorry-for-the-slight-OT-ly yours, Stargaming Hardware_ details: Processors * Atmel 32-bit ARM processor * 256 KB Flash * 64 KB RAM * 48 MHz * (handles USB/Bluetooth, display/sound) * Atmel 8-bit AVR co-processor * 4 KB Flash * 512 Byte RAM * 8 MHz * (handles raw I/O) Quick glossary: NXC Not eXactly C, C-like programming language for the NXT NBC Next Byte Code, Assembler-like language for the NXT NXT The robot itself :-) .. _restricted: http://www.teamhassenplug.org/NXT/NXTSoftware.html .. _firmware: http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/OpenSource.aspx .. _NXC: http://bricxcc.sourceforge.net/nbc/nxcdoc/index.html .. _NBC: http://bricxcc.sourceforge.net/nbc/ .. _socket: http://home.comcast.net/~dplau/nxt_python/index.html .. _asked: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.lego.robotics/7193 .. _bytecode: http://cache.lego.com/upload/contentTemplating/MindstormsOverview/otherfile… .. _NXT: http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/NXTreme.aspx .. _Hardware: http://cache.lego.com/upload/contentTemplatingMindstormsOverview/otherfiles… .. All mentioned brands belong to their respective owners. ;)

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FW: PyPy JIT and other languages
by Ben.Young＠sungard.com 06 Feb '08

06 Feb '08

Hi Guys, I'm playing around with a bit of language design, and was wondering if the JIT is able to support languages that run by traversing an AST, rather than by interpreting bytecode? The reason is, my toy language is able to mutate itself at runtime, and so the AST that's running is also exposed at applevel. Also, can any of you give a 2 sentence description of what a rainbow interpreter is? It looks like a very low level bytecode interpreter, but I'm sure it's more than that. Still following the project after all these years! Cheers, Ben Ben Young - Senior Software Engineer SunGard - Enterprise House, Vision Park, Histon, Cambridge, CB24 9ZR Tel +44 1223 266042 - Main +44 1223 266100 - http://www.sungard.com/ CONFIDENTIALITY: This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email from your system. Thank you.

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How to learn RPython as a general purpose language
by Josh Gilbert 04 Feb '08

04 Feb '08

I tried downloading the archives of this list and grepping, but couldn't find an answer to this question. If it's been discussed to death and I missed it I apologize. I realize that it is not recommended to use RPython as a general purpose language, a front end to C if you will. My question is how one might learn how to do so, regardless. I'm also interested in reasons why it shouldn't be done (preferably ones that can be resolved). ## References I've found a comment on LtU suggesting that it is extremely hard to learn, yet a valuable skill if you can cut it: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1260#comment-13972 I've also found a hello world example from 2006 (humorously labeled part 1): http://radix.twistedmatrix.com/2006/12/how-to-do-something-with-rpython-par… Josh Gilbert.

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