Mailman 3 September 2008 - pypy-dev

2.5 and 2.4 compatibility
by Maciej Fijalkowski 12 Oct '08

12 Oct '08

I'm working on 2.5 compatibility branch right now. Due to incompatible changes, I suggest that we say we don't provide --pyversion option any more and simply compile 2.5 compatible interpreter. I don't really see benefits of providing 2.4 right now (after a brief discussion with Armin). If anyone objects, please do that now. Cheers, fijal

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Switching to a distributed version control system
by Jacob Hallén 19 Sep '08

19 Sep '08

I think that it would be a suitable point in time to switch to a new version control system right after the 1.1 release. The first question to ask is of course why we should switch at all. While the distributed version control systems allow a workflow where people maintan their own repositories and there is a designated role of integrator, I don't think we need such a workflow at this point in time. It may very well be the model to use in the future, when we have a production usable system, but right now this feature has no direct appeal. The compelling reason to switch is in my opinion the superior support for branches that the DVCS's provide. Creating a branch is a very cheap operation and merging it to the trunk or whatever branch is far superior to what SVN provides. I think this feature would change the way we are working and improve our productivity by a significant factor. There are a few other arguments in favour of a switch. People working through GPRS and off-line would have an easier time handling branches and updates. It would be possible to do sprints without a working internet access. There are, in my opinion, 3 viable choices of DVCS for PyPy: - git - hg (mercurial) - bzr I think they would all be an improvement over SVN and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. In favour of bzr and hg is the fact that they are written in Python, with core parts in C. Git is all C. Git currently requires a cygwin environment to run on Windows, hg and bzr appear to have native windows versions. Git is the fastest of the lot with hg in second place. Bzr is still a fair bit slower, though this is being worked on. Hg is really good at keeping the repositories small, with git in second place. Speaking for bzr is the fact that we have Michael Hudson in the PyPy community, and he seems to be a guru on bzr by now. Hg seems to be a little more tedious in its command set than the other two. Git used to be rather obscure, but is these days very straight forward to use. Git and bzr have very good visualization tools for showing the splitting and merging of branches. Git seems to be best at showing exactly what changed between 2 versions of the code (even 2 versions that are not on the same subtree). The strongest argument in favour of git seems to me to be the rebase feature, which allows one to make a branch for a new feature, work on the branch and then update the base of the branch to branch off at a later point in time. I haven't identified this feature in hg and bzr, but then I haven't read all the documentation in detail. The one feature of svn that we would miss is the inclusion of foreign version controlled trees, like we do with the pylib tree. We would have to do this in a different way than before, since none of the systems have this feature. I'm not sure it makes sense to have the close svn coupling between the projects any more, in any case. The effort of learning any of the systems seems to be quite insignificant. getting up to the level of svn is a matter of 15 minutes and learning the whole range of commands in a tool is not a big effort. There is of course the hooks that send mail and blurb in IRC, but all 3 systems seem to have at least as powerful hooks as svn. Jacob

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Pypy IRC meeting fri 17:00 UTC on #pypy (freenode.net)
by Samuele Pedroni 18 Sep '08

18 Sep '08

Hi all, since EuroPython there's been some thinking and planning about doing a new release of PyPy 1.1 before the end of the year with a focus related to the recent work on compatibility with applications and CPython and stability. We think that an important step in the process is to improve and consolidate our testing infrastructure with the goal of making it easy to spot regressions. After some people availability checking on #pypy we agreed on scheduling a meeting: this Friday 29 Aug at 17:00 UTC (19:00 CEST) on #pypy IRC channel (freenode.net) The topics to discuss are: - which machines do we have available or we need (we would like at least to cover Linux x86-32 and windows 32bits) - requirements for our testing infrastructure - status of buildbot related work, what would it take to use buildbot for all out testing needs? - things to do first This is an open meeting, anybody interested in topics is invited to participate. It should not last more than 1 hour. We are also planning on having a sprint in October around the testing/release topics and others, we may also try at this meeting to finalize location and dates for that. regards.

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please read my OSDC paper!
by Michael Hudson 14 Sep '08

14 Sep '08

Hi, As some of you know, I'm speaking about PyPy and OSDC in Sydney in December. As the deadline for submitting the associated paper is tomorrow, it seems like time to get some feedback :) You can see the paper (in reST format) here: http://codespeak.net/pypy/extradoc/talk/osdc2008/paper.txt If anyone has any comments, I'd be grateful for feedback. I'm going to be asleep for most of the time between now on the deadline, so please either commit comments into the file or reply to this mail and I'll take them into account before submitting tomorrow. Cheers, mwh

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build machines/doc directory
by holger krekel 10 Sep '08

10 Sep '08

Hi all, i've created a new doc directory to start documenting build machines, test, benchmark environments. svnlocation is https://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/build/doc I added an initial 'ssh_config' file which contains the hosts available to pypy developers. Please help complete. I also wrote a small script in svn/py/trunk/contrib/sysinfo.py to quickly collect remote system information. Combine the two and run "sysinfo.py -f ssh_config" and you'll get an overview of what we have (you can also use "sysinfo.py HOST1 HOST2 ..." explicitely) BIGDOG2 fqdn: bigdog2 BIGDOG2 sys.platform: linux2 BIGDOG2 sys.version_info: (2, 5, 2, 'final', 0) BIGDOG2 Memory: 8191804 Swap: 5116660 BIGDOG2 number of cpus: 4 BIGDOG2 cpu model AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor WYVERN fqdn: wyvern.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de WYVERN sys.platform: linux2 WYVERN sys.version_info: (2, 4, 4, 'final', 0) WYVERN Memory: 5187968 Swap: 8032492 WYVERN number of cpus: 8 WYVERN cpu model Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz COBRA fqdn: cobra.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de COBRA sys.platform: linux2 COBRA sys.version_info: (2, 4, 4, 'final', 0) COBRA Memory: 2059980 Swap: 5148136 COBRA number of cpus: 8 COBRA cpu model Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz TUATARA fqdn: tuatara.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de TUATARA sys.platform: darwin TUATARA sys.version_info: (2, 3, 5, 'final', 0) T20 fqdn: jython01. T20 sys.platform: sunos5 T20 sys.version_info: (2, 4, 4, 'final', 0) Feel free to extend the sysinfo script - i guess having more information about windows/OSX/Solaris platforms and about available python versions / executables would be nice. Usually one can obtain this info through files or command line options so it shouldn't be hard to get this information automatically and add it to the sysinfo script. best, holger -- collaborative expert contracting: http://merlinux.eu PyPy Python/Compiler tool chain: http://codespeak.net/pypy pylib py.test/greenlets/svn APIs: http://pylib.org

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next pypy sprint 5-13th october
by holger krekel 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

======================================================== DÃ¼sseldorf PyPy sprint 5-13th October, 2008 ======================================================== The PyPy team is heading for a new sprint meetup, this time aiming at a 1.1 release and to work on integrating PyPy better with small devices. We are also open to other sprint topics! The sprint is going to take place at the Computer Science department of Heinrich-Heine UniversitÃ¤t DÃ¼sseldorf (Germany). Infos in a nutshell: arrival day: Sunday, 5th October departure day: Monday, 13th October sprint days: 6-12th october with breaks Location: Seminar room of the computer science department, situated in the building 25.12 of the university campus, second floor. For travel instructions see http://stups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/anreise/esbahn.php ------------------------------ Accomodation ------------------------------ We may be able to fit some people into private flats and otherwise there are several hotels, one recommended one is the http://www.hotel-hillesheim.de/ where we are investigating regarding a cheaper group rate. Please register ASAP if you want to benefit. There are also some hotels that are used by visitors to the university and are quite close to the uni. None of us have been at them, so we have no experience of how good they are. 1. Hotel BlÃ¤ttler http://www.hotel-blaettler.com/ 2. Hotel Mooren http://www.hotel-haus-mooren.de/ 3. Hotel Europa can't seem to find a website 4. Schloss Mickeln This one is the guest house of the university in a very beautiful castle. Supposed to be extremely nice, but also expensive. http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/home/gaeste/schlossmickeln ----------------------- Funding your travel ----------------------- We have a limited budget for funding travels. If you want to participate but need travel funding please register and send a note to the pypy-sprint mailing list. We'll see what we can do to help. ------------ Registration ------------ If you'd like to come, please subscribe to the `pypy-sprint mailing list`_ and drop a note about your interests and post any questions. More organisational information will be sent to that list. Please register by adding yourself on the following list (via svn): http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/october-2008/people.txt or announceyourself on the pypy-sprint mailing list if you do not yet have check-in rights: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-sprint --------------------------------------- Preparation (if you feel it is needed): --------------------------------------- * read the `getting-started`_ pages on http://codespeak.net/pypy * for inspiration, overview and technical status you are welcome to read `the technical reports available and other relevant documentation`_ * please direct any technical and/or development oriented questions to pypy-dev at codespeak.net and any sprint organizing/logistical questions to pypy-sprint at codespeak.net We are looking forward to meet you at the DÃ¼sseldorf PyPy sprint! The PyPy team .. See also .. .. _getting-started: http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/getting-started.html .. _`pypy-sprint mailing list`: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-sprint .. _`the technical reports available and other relevant documentation`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/index.html .. _`EuroPython schedule`: http://europython.org/timetable -- collaborative expert contracting: http://merlinux.eu PyPy Python/Compiler tool chain: http://codespeak.net/pypy pylib py.test/greenlets/svn APIs: http://pylib.org

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Possible starting points
by Calen Pennington 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hi, everybody, I've been intrigued by pypy for a while =, but haven't really been able to find a good place to start contributing on my own, so I was wondering if anyone had suggestions. As far as what I'm interested in, I'd really like to see pypy be more accessible to mainstream python users, and to be closer to an easy drop in replacement for CPython (although it seems unlikely that it would become the standard python distribution any time soon). I know c extensions are one blocker to that, as well as feature completeness (although i don't really know the details of where pypy stands with regards to 2.5 (or 2.6/3.0, for that matter)). That said, I'm also interested in language design/implementation in general, so I wouldn't be averse to working on other parts of the interpreter/translator chain either. So, any thoughts as to what reasonable starting points would be? Thanks -Cale

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master thesis with pypy
by Severin 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hello everybody, I am Severin - a student at ETH in Zurich. Currently i'm enrolled at the Masters program in computer science. The next 6 month, starting from the 15th of September I will do my thesis. This more or less means working on a project. Since me and my mentor (Nicholas Matsakis) both share interest in python we came up with the idea to do some work with the pypy project. We started to talk about what we could do and what would be interesting for us. In some way we wanted to '*improve multiprocessor capabilities*' in pypy. We had some ideas so far, but we are not yet fixed on something. I was wondering if somebody of you has something that is of particular interest to the pypy community. Some ideas that might be interesting to look at for me. Any kind of input or idea is welcome... Best regards, Severin

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translate.py failes
by Ветошкин Никита 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hi, everybody. Tried to play with pypy, but translating to c failes because of lack of memory. Used command: python translate.py. OS: gentoo linux, amd64 RAM: 4Gb Traceback attached to the letter. nekto0n [cbuild:execute] cc -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pthread -c -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pthread -c __thread_test.c -o __thread_test.o [Timer] Timings: [Timer] annotate --- 679.5 s [Timer] rtype_lltype --- 487.4 s [Timer] backendopt_lltype --- 458.8 s [Timer] stackcheckinsertion_lltype --- 70.2 s [Timer] database_c --- 971.2 s [Timer] source_c --- 0.4 s [Timer] =========================================== [Timer] Total: --- 2667.5 s [translation:ERROR] Error: [translation:ERROR] Traceback (most recent call last): [translation:ERROR] File "translate.py", line 278, in main [translation:ERROR] drv.proceed(goals) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/driver.py", line 797, in proceed [translation:ERROR] return self._execute(goals, task_skip = self._maybe_skip()) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/taskengine.py", line 116, in _execute [translation:ERROR] res = self._do(goal, taskcallable, *args, **kwds) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/driver.py", line 268, in _do [translation:ERROR] res = func() [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/driver.py", line 492, in task_source_c [translation:ERROR] c_source_filename = cbuilder.generate_source(database) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/c/genc.py", line 127, in generate_source [translation:ERROR] CBuilder.have___thread = check_under_under_thread() [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/cbuild.py", line 696, in check_under_under_thread [translation:ERROR] noerr=True) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/cbuild.py", line 654, in build_executable [translation:ERROR] compiler.build(noerr=noerr) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/cbuild.py", line 578, in build [translation:ERROR] self._build() [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/cbuild.py", line 638, in _build [translation:ERROR] extra_preargs=compile_extra) [translation:ERROR] File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/ccompiler.py", line 701, in compile [translation:ERROR] self._compile(obj, src, ext, cc_args, extra_postargs, pp_opts) [translation:ERROR] File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/unixccompiler.py", line 180, in _compile [translation:ERROR] extra_postargs) [translation:ERROR] File "/var/tmp/pypy-svn/dist/pypy/translator/tool/cbuild.py", line 482, in spawn_and_log [translation:ERROR] return spawn(cmd, *args, **kwds) [translation:ERROR] File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/ccompiler.py", line 1042, in spawn [translation:ERROR] spawn (cmd, dry_run=self.dry_run) [translation:ERROR] File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/spawn.py", line 37, in spawn [translation:ERROR] _spawn_posix(cmd, search_path, dry_run=dry_run) [translation:ERROR] File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/spawn.py", line 127, in _spawn_posix [translation:ERROR] pid = os.fork() [translation:ERROR] OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory [translation] start debugger... > /usr/lib64/python2.5/distutils/spawn.py(127)_spawn_posix() -> pid = os.fork()

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Re: [pypy-dev] translate.py failes
by Carl Friedrich Bolz 03 Sep '08

03 Sep '08

Vetoshkin Nikita wrote: > Thanks! > I thought it should work on top of PyPy doesn't it? It probably should, but on py.py it is bound to be slow and I am not sure it works that on the remote site a py.py is started correctly. Anyway, if you work on py.execnet for helping the translation process then you don't need to run it on py.py anyway, but on CPython. Cheers, Carl Friedrich

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