Hello, during the last days I got a little bit interested in smalltalk (article in c't 2/2003). Since smalltalk is already about 30 years old and shares some similarities to Python, some aspects of smalltalk might ease the effort to implement Python in Python. Here are some smalltalk faclets that makes it interesting: - Everything is an object (even classes and code blocks for example) - All actions are performed by invoking an object method (even loops) - there are only 5 keywords and only a couple of "special" characters - the smalltalk VM is implemented in smalltalk - smalltalk comes with "batteries included" With smalltalk in mind, one could write a kind of ProtoPython that has much less overhead than the existing Python. Possible features of a ProtoPython (very incomplete): - smaller set of reserved words ("print","import",etc. shouldn't be reserved words) - no operators, '+','-',... will be methods - at least the for loop could be a method of a (to be defined) list class. Even if this approach is absolutely ridiculous, just looking at smalltalk might give some ideas/hints how to construct a self describing language. Some Links: Squeak (open source smalltalk runtime): http://www.squeak.org smalltalk 80 :The Language and Its Implementation (contains details about the VM): http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/bluebook/bluebook_imp_toc.html [Python-Dev] Classes and Metaclasses in Smalltalk: Guido about a mail from Jim Althoff, inventor of smalltalk metaclasses http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-May/014508.html smalltalkish python: http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak/msg04577.html Stephan
Hi, last week, inspired by this list, I started to do a Python in Python implementation, after the Squeak model. Currently I have an object memory with out GC running. From tomorrow onwards I will continue to work on it. cya Gerald Stephan Diehl wrote:
Hello,
during the last days I got a little bit interested in smalltalk (article in c't 2/2003). Since smalltalk is already about 30 years old and shares some similarities to Python, some aspects of smalltalk might ease the effort to implement Python in Python. Here are some smalltalk faclets that makes it interesting: - Everything is an object (even classes and code blocks for example) - All actions are performed by invoking an object method (even loops) - there are only 5 keywords and only a couple of "special" characters - the smalltalk VM is implemented in smalltalk - smalltalk comes with "batteries included"
With smalltalk in mind, one could write a kind of ProtoPython that has much less overhead than the existing Python. Possible features of a ProtoPython (very incomplete): - smaller set of reserved words ("print","import",etc. shouldn't be reserved words) - no operators, '+','-',... will be methods - at least the for loop could be a method of a (to be defined) list class.
Even if this approach is absolutely ridiculous, just looking at smalltalk might give some ideas/hints how to construct a self describing language.
Some Links:
Squeak (open source smalltalk runtime): http://www.squeak.org
smalltalk 80 :The Language and Its Implementation (contains details about the VM): http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/bluebook/bluebook_imp_toc.html
[Python-Dev] Classes and Metaclasses in Smalltalk: Guido about a mail from Jim Althoff, inventor of smalltalk metaclasses http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-May/014508.html
smalltalkish python: http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak/msg04577.html
Stephan _______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Gerald Klix wrote:
Hi, last week, inspired by this list, I started to do a Python in Python implementation, after the Squeak model. Currently I have an object memory with out GC running.
To put your mouth where your code is, please let us know :-))
From tomorrow onwards I will continue to work on it.
How about sharing your experience in the sprint? ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@tismer.com> Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/
On Sunday 02 February 2003 13:27, you wrote:
Hi, last week, inspired by this list, I started to do a Python in Python implementation, after the Squeak model. Currently I have an object memory with out GC running.
From tomorrow onwards I will continue to work on it.
Would you mind sharing what you have done so far? Cheers Stephan
cya Gerald
participants (3)
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Christian Tismer -
Gerald Klix -
Stephan Diehl