Why isn't the PyPy logo Ouroboros(Snake biting its tail)?
I'm asking someone on the inside and I hope I got the right email address since this is the only one I could find. The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros If you like the idea I can create concept art for it.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
If you like the idea I can create concept art for it.
Personally, I don't like the current pypy logo too much, so proposals for a new one are welcome from my side :-). ciao, Anto
Khalid Shahin wrote:
I'm asking someone on the inside and I hope I got the right email address since this is the only one I could find.
That's totally the right address, welcome!
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
I always understood "P" of the current PyPy logo to be or to at least hint at an Ouroboros. Maybe that's only me though.
If you like the idea I can create concept art for it.
Concept art sounds good. Cheers, Carl Friedrich
Hi Khalid, On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 14:32 -0400, Khalid Shahin wrote:
I'm asking someone on the inside and I hope I got the right email address since this is the only one I could find.
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
it was created ages ago from Gero Schulze, a friend of mine.
actually the idea of the current logo was to raise this association.
If you like the idea I can create concept art for it.
nice. If you can i'd probably like it if can use some elements of the current one and not do a totally new one. best & have fun, holger
Hi, Le dimanche 18 octobre 2009 20:32:07, Khalid Shahin a écrit :
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
I read somewhere that PyPy is no more a project dedicated to Python, but it's a little bit more generic. If the project is splitted in two parts (generic compiler + python interpreter), Ouroboros would be the logo of the python interpreter, right? I like Ourouboros. "snake biting its tail" was the title of my first news on linuxfr (a french open source news website) :-) PyPy, le serpent qui se mord la queue, sort en version 0.99 http://linuxfr.org/2007/02/22/22108.html February 2007 -- Victor Stinner http://www.haypocalc.com/
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
Le dimanche 18 octobre 2009 20:32:07, Khalid Shahin a écrit :
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
I read somewhere that PyPy is no more a project dedicated to Python, but it's a little bit more generic. If the project is splitted in two parts (generic compiler + python interpreter), Ouroboros would be the logo of the python interpreter, right?
Separating the pypy translator/compiler from the pypy python interpreter (preferably with different names) is something I would love to see happen. The first thing you have to say to someone when explaining pypy is "pypy is two completely different (but related) things..." so different logos and names would help a lot. But who should get the Ouroboros logo I don't know.
I like Ourouboros. "snake biting its tail" was the title of my first news on linuxfr (a french open source news website) :-)
PyPy, le serpent qui se mord la queue, sort en version 0.99 http://linuxfr.org/2007/02/22/22108.html February 2007
-- Leonardo Santagada santagada at gmail.com
Leonardo Santagada wrote:
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo. I read somewhere that PyPy is no more a project dedicated to Python, but it's a little bit more generic. If the project is splitted in two parts (generic compiler + python interpreter), Ouroboros would be the logo of the
Le dimanche 18 octobre 2009 20:32:07, Khalid Shahin a écrit : python interpreter, right?
Separating the pypy translator/compiler from the pypy python interpreter (preferably with different names) is something I would love to see happen. The first thing you have to say to someone when explaining pypy is "pypy is two completely different (but related) things..." so different logos and names would help a lot.
While I agree, to do this we would have to come up with a name for the translation toolchain part. And coming up with names is even harder than coming up with logos.
But who should get the Ouroboros logo I don't know.
The Python interpreter part of course. Cheers, Carl Friedrich
Antonio Cuni wrote:
Carl Friedrich wrote:
While I agree, to do this we would have to come up with a name for the translation toolchain part. And coming up with names is even harder than coming up with logos.
it's also unclear how to split the sources: e.g., pypy/interpreter/ belongs to both.
Yes, but I think something can be worked out there. Technical problems have a solution, but discussing the name can take arbitrarily long. Cheers, Carl Friedrich
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 15:09 +0200, Antonio Cuni wrote:
Carl Friedrich wrote:
While I agree, to do this we would have to come up with a name for the translation toolchain part. And coming up with names is even harder than coming up with logos.
it's also unclear how to split the sources: e.g., pypy/interpreter/ belongs to > both.
the interpreter is needed for abstract interpretation, true - but does it maybe make sense to eventually decouple these rpython analysis capabilities from how/which Python version/bytecodes are implemented for our Python interpreter offering? best, holger
holger krekel wrote:
the interpreter is needed for abstract interpretation, true - but does it maybe make sense to eventually decouple these rpython analysis capabilities from how/which Python version/bytecodes are implemented for our Python interpreter offering?
it's probably possible, but I don't think it's easy unless you want to duplicate a lot of code
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 15:05 +0200, Carl Friedrich wrote:
Leonardo Santagada wrote:
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo. I read somewhere that PyPy is no more a project dedicated to Python, but it's a little bit more generic. If the project is splitted in two parts (generic compiler + python interpreter), Ouroboros would be the logo of the
Le dimanche 18 octobre 2009 20:32:07, Khalid Shahin a écrit : python interpreter, right?
Separating the pypy translator/compiler from the pypy python interpreter (preferably with different names) is something I would love to see happen. The first thing you have to say to someone when explaining pypy is "pypy is two completely different (but related) things..." so different logos and names would help a lot.
While I agree, to do this we would have to come up with a name for the translation toolchain part. And coming up with names is even harder than coming up with logos.
but it shouldn't fail just because we are afraid of a naming discussion. I suggest a termination criterium for the discussion like the next sprint meetup in Duesseldorf (6th till 13th October) and have attendants agree / vote with or without prior beers.
But who should get the Ouroboros logo I don't know.
The Python interpreter part of course.
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator. cheers, holger
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 15:34 +0200, Antonio Cuni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator.
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
nice one :) holger
On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:34 AM, Antonio Cuni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator.
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
nice :) The logo could be dynamite inspired too :) Although I think that the interpreter being named PyPy still makes reference for a python interpreter running on top of python, so maybe the interpreter could have another name and PyPy could be the name of the umbrella project for dynajite + all interpreters. But it is just an idea, feel free to not listen to me. Being able to say that pypy is a python interpreter that is translated by dinajite is a big step forward in making things clear. Another point is that I don't really think there is any need to separate the sources as antonio sugested, separating things conceptually is enough. -- Leonardo Santagada santagada at gmail.com
Antonio Cuni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator.
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
Funny, but not really a name I would seriously consider. Sounds too much like shite... Cheers, Carl Friedrich
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 17:24 +0200, Carl Friedrich wrote:
Antonio Cuni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator.
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
Funny, but not really a name I would seriously consider. Sounds too much like shite...
maybe, anyone any other ideas? holger
Hi all, On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:12 PM, holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 17:24 +0200, Carl Friedrich wrote:
Antonio Cuni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
yip. so we need a name for our super-powered ultra-flexible translator.
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
Funny, but not really a name I would seriously consider. Sounds too much like shite...
maybe, anyone any other ideas?
Well, let's throw in this one: PyCT for Python Compiler Toolchain. Cheers, Odie
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:19 +0200, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
maybe, anyone any other ideas?
with Carl we considered yesterday:
- vmribo from contracting ribosome
and
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw djynn - which VM do you want to generate today? into the round.
2009/10/20 holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:19 +0200, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
maybe, anyone any other ideas?
with Carl we considered yesterday:
- vmribo from contracting ribosome
and
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw
djynn - which VM do you want to generate today?
I like PICT - Python Interpreter Compiler Toolchain. There is already a PICT (microcontrollers I think) so what about: PyCT: Python Compiler Toolchain. Michael
into the round.
_______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Hi Michael, On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:54 +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
2009/10/20 holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:19 +0200, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
maybe, anyone any other ideas?
with Carl we considered yesterday:
- vmribo from contracting ribosome
and
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw
djynn - which VM do you want to generate today?
I like PICT - Python Interpreter Compiler Toolchain.
There is already a PICT (microcontrollers I think) so what about:
PyCT: Python Compiler Toolchain.
For the Translator tool chain i suggest to avoid a "Py" prefix and also avoid the "python compiler" association. Here's why: * I'd like to encourage VM developüers who identify with other languages to consider using the "xxx" tool chain instead of C/JVM/NET to implement their VM. * "Compiling Python" easily stirs the misconception that the focus is on statically compiling Python apps. best, holger
2009/10/20 holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu>:
Hi Michael,
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:54 +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
2009/10/20 holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:19 +0200, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
holger krekel wrote:
maybe, anyone any other ideas?
with Carl we considered yesterday:
- vmribo from contracting ribosome
and
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw
djynn - which VM do you want to generate today?
I like PICT - Python Interpreter Compiler Toolchain.
There is already a PICT (microcontrollers I think) so what about:
PyCT: Python Compiler Toolchain.
For the Translator tool chain i suggest to avoid a "Py" prefix and also avoid the "python compiler" association. Here's why:
* I'd like to encourage VM developüers who identify with other languages to consider using the "xxx" tool chain instead of C/JVM/NET to implement their VM.
* "Compiling Python" easily stirs the misconception that the focus is on statically compiling Python apps.
We could just call it "rpython", since that's what it is. -- Regards, Benjamin
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:42 AM, holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu> wrote:
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw
djynn - which VM do you want to generate today?
I think that both vmdjinn and djynn are almost impossible to pronunciate. Btw, I think I miss what they mean and/or refer to. Are they acronyms?
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 at 16:17, Antonio Cuni wrote:
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:42 AM, holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu> wrote:
- vmdjinn
nice - i like the "djinn" meme - so also throw
� �djynn - which VM do you want to generate today?
I think that both vmdjinn and djynn are almost impossible to pronunciate. Btw, I think I miss what they mean and/or refer to. Are they acronyms?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djinn Once you know how to pronounce the reference, the proposed names become easier to pronounce. --David (RDM)
R. David Murray wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djinn
Once you know how to pronounce the reference, the proposed names become easier to pronounce.
ahah, now everything it's much clearer, thanks! And yes, I like it :-)
Carl Friedrich wrote:
dynajite:
- it's for dynamic languages - it provides you a jit - it makes your head explode :-)
Funny, but not really a name I would seriously consider. Sounds too much like shite...
uhm, my italian mind would never pronounce dynajite like that, but maybe native speakers of other languages think differently, I don't know. To mitigate this, we could simply drop the 'e' at the end: 'dynajit', but I agree that it's much more boring. About other names, the most obvious and boring alternative is rpyc (for rpython compiler), but I don't like it too much. ciao, Anto
Ok, I found where a read a proposition of splitting PyPy in two parts: http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/9853 This blog entry proposes the name gcgc (or "GcGc"): "the Generic Compiler for Generating Compilers" The name is similar to YACC (Yet Another Compiler Compiler). Le lundi 19 octobre 2009 14:38:37, vous avez écrit :
But who should get the Ouroboros logo I don't know.
Most Python projects starts with "py", so PyPy should be the name of the Python interpreter. Ouroboros is a snake so it should be the logo of PyPy (the Python part). -- Victor Stinner http://www.haypocalc.com/
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 13:08 +0200, Victor Stinner wrote:
Le dimanche 18 octobre 2009 20:32:07, Khalid Shahin a écrit :
The current PyPy logo seems kind of plain. And Ouroboros is a symbol of snake biting its tail and represents a cycle, a re-creation of itself, or a self-reference. Which would fit nicely in the PyPy logo.
I read somewhere that PyPy is no more a project dedicated to Python, but it's a little bit more generic. If the project is splitted in two parts (generic compiler + python interpreter), Ouroboros would be the logo of the python interpreter, right?
it's even more than two parts: - PyPy the Python Interpreter - XXX the rpython-to-whatever translator and jit-generator - pyrolog, spy, gameboy and other VMs using the translator the VMs could live in one bunch or separate as they wish, i'd think. best, holger
- XXX the rpython-to-whatever translator and jit-generator
Maybe this is too obscure, but this part could be "turtle", for the world turtle.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down#Origin "Turtles all the way down" is to my mind somewhat appropriate for PyPy's translator toolchain. Thanks, Van
Turtle would be really nice if it were not for it's negative speed connotations ;-) Cheers, Miquel 2009/10/20 VanL <van.lindberg@gmail.com>
- XXX the rpython-to-whatever translator and jit-generator
Maybe this is too obscure, but this part could be "turtle", for the world turtle.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down#Origin
"Turtles all the way down" is to my mind somewhat appropriate for PyPy's translator toolchain.
Thanks,
Van _______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
holger krekel wrote:
it's even more than two parts:
- PyPy the Python Interpreter - XXX the rpython-to-whatever translator and jit-generator
Thinking about this more, why not PyPy the Python Interpreter and Ouroborus the rpython-to-whatever translator and jit-generator? Having the interpreter class in both would be representative of the snake devouring itself. Thanks, Van
participants (13)
-
Antonio Cuni -
Benjamin Peterson -
Carl Friedrich -
holger krekel -
Khalid Shahin -
Leonardo Santagada -
Michael Foord -
Miquel Torres -
Olivier Dormond -
R. David Murray -
Samuele Pedroni -
VanL -
Victor Stinner