Hi pypy-dev, it makes sense to discuss a few issuses regarding future development work (apart from the very nice and successful translation meeting we had last week). I suggest to meet Thursday, 2nd June, 3pm (CEST == GMT+1) on #pypy at irc.freenode.net. Here are suggested topics: - sprint announcement/themes: although times and city are fixed already, the actual sprint topics for the post-europython sprint from 1st July - 7th July in Goetheborg (Sweden) are not yet decided and announced. However, almost all active developers will come and it's already safe to reserve the time and book your flights if you want to attend a newcomer-friendly sprint! - release planning: there is the idea to do a PyPy-0.6.2 around EuroPython or even as the finishing event of the public EuroPython sprint. Goals for this possible release need some discussion, though. Here is a suggestion: - move our lib-python base to 2.4.1 - make documentation more complete (e.g. interpreter/ docs are still missing) - integrate parser module (possibly making it RPython conformant) (- maybe offer a small tool to translate small RPython programs) - giving the translation efforts a stable base: One problem with ongoing development of PyPy is that the translation process is still somewhat fragile with respect to type inference (annotation) on our source tree. Therefore, it would be good if translation could for some time rely on a non-changing PyPy base. One simple idea is to fork off translation work in a branch, although i'd like to avoid that if possible. For starters, documentation changes in the branch would not be immediately seen on the website. Any other _simple_ ideas? - Advancing Issue Tracking: we probably want to decide how we proceed with issue tracking and especially classifications of issues. There is the simple idea of assigning an 'easy', 'medium' and 'hard' value to each issue to make it easier for newcomers and for ourselves. Moreover, if we go for a 0.6.2 release i think we should redesign the tracker schema to use 'release' instead of 'milestone'. - news/infos: there are news regarding a guy who is likely to enter the EU/PyPy project and who comes from the Squeak (Smalltalk mostly implemented in Smalltalk) world. Just so you know. - anything else i forgot (please post before instead of suggesting it at the meeting -> better planning) cheers & see you, holger
Am 29.05.2005 um 21:21 schrieb holger krekel:
You mean GMT+2, so that would be 13:00 GMT?
That would be me, thanks for the introduction :-) I'll try to be at the chat, and in Göteborg, too. If someone wants to get an overview why Squeak might be interesting for PyPy, read this (old) paper: http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/squeak/oopsla_squeak.html Cheers! - Bert -
Hi Bert! On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 22:47 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
hum, let's say it's 3pm german time :-) I always get confused about daylight saving. I think it is actually GMT+2 at the moment.
I would have mentioned your name and more background but wasn't sure if you'd like publicity :-)
I'll try to be at the chat, and in Göteborg, too.
great!
Interesting. Maybe we can make a comparison table about the difference in approaches. For example, squeak translation is source-to-source based while PyPy's approach reuses its own bytecode-interpreter to produce a control flow graph on which it then performs type inference. The main advantage is that the flow graph does not depend on particular bytecodes or language constructs. It merely records all operations on application objects and re-constructs the program flow. But you probably know all this already :-) cheers, holger
Hi Jacob, On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 02:57 +0200, Jacob Hallen wrote:
Don't worry. I should have mentioned more prominently that this technical meeting is intended for PyPy developers irrespective of relations to the PyPy/EU project. Usually it should be fine if some of us keep the EU perspective in mind and we otherwise have open dev-meetings. cheers, holger
Hi, On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 09:21:16PM +0200, holger krekel wrote:
We implemented the following scheme, inspired by the 'testresult' svn directory: there is a distinct svn directory somewhere in 'pypy/branch' that contains a copy of a known and stable revision of a selection of directories, namely 'interpreter', 'module' and 'objspace' without 'flow'. This is to be checked out *inside* pypy/translator/goal. Then translate_pypy does some minor hacking of 'pypy.__path__' to let the directories from the branch override the directories from the complete working copy. Instructions on what to checkout exactly are given when you try to run translate_pypy.py. The scaled-down "branch" isn't meant for active development, and will never be merged back into the trunk. Occasionally, further fixes in the trunk that are needed to make the annotator happy are merged into the branch. A bientot, Armin.
Hi again, so the meeting is just finished and here are some minutes and conclusions we reached. Feel free to comment here on the list (the minutes are also checked into svn/pypy/extradoc/irclog/). cheers, holger pypy-dev meeting on #pypy at irc.freenode.net Thursday, 2nd June, 3pm (CEST == GMT+2) attendees: Armin Rigo, Samuele Pedroni, Carl Friedrich Bolz, Holger Krekel, Anders Chrigstroem, Anders Lehmann, Adrien di Mascio, Stelios Xanthakis, Bert Freudenberg topics and decisions: .. contents:: .. sectnum:: ------------------------------------------- news/infos ------------------------------------------- Bert Freudenberg introduces himself as a Squeak Developer since '97 who intends to enter the EU project and to come to the Post-EuroPython PyPy sprint. Stelios Xanthakis (mayall) has been watching PyPy from the sideline. He is the author of 'pyvm', a python virtual machine experiment. ------------------------------------------- short-term release planning ------------------------------------------- around 23rd of June we'd like to do a 0.6.2 release which includes moving our lib-python base to 2.4.1 and improved documentation (especially for newcomers). ------------------------------------------- sprint announcement/topics ------------------------------------------- although times and city are fixed already, the actual sprint topics for the post-europython sprint from 1st-7th July (both including) July in Goetheborg (Sweden) are not yet decided and announced. However, almost all active developers will come and it's already safe to reserve the time and book your flights if you want to attend a newcomer-friendly sprint. Sprint topics (Armin has already formulated a more detailed topic announcement draft in extradoc/sprintinfo/EP2005-announcement.txt): - translation : - rtyper (low-level impl of RPython objects) - genc/genllvm (might be well advanced by EP) - integrate parser module (possibly making it RPython conformant) - various topics (name some examples from the tracker) depending on people's interests ------------------------------------------- Advancing Issue Tracking: ------------------------------------------- Holger will extend/modify issue tracking so that - each issue is classsified as requiring hard, medium or easy efforts (maybe name that 'effort' or something) - milestones should go in favour of a release-field which should initially contain '0.6.2', '1.0' (mainly reflecting Milestone 1 stuff) and 'general' (not yet tied to any release in particular) later we add release values like a possible 0.7 etc.pp. ------------------------------------------- stable base for Translation efforts ------------------------------------------- giving the translation efforts a stable base: One problem with ongoing development of PyPy is that the translation process is still somewhat fragile with respect to type inference (annotation) on our source tree. -> resolved already before the meeting: see Armin's pypy-dev posting. [current approach: pypy/translator/goal contains a stable snapshot of interpreter, module and objspace directories so that main-line changes don't disturb translation work, run 'python translate_pypy.py targetpypy1.py' to get interactive advise]
Am 29.05.2005 um 21:21 schrieb holger krekel:
You mean GMT+2, so that would be 13:00 GMT?
That would be me, thanks for the introduction :-) I'll try to be at the chat, and in Göteborg, too. If someone wants to get an overview why Squeak might be interesting for PyPy, read this (old) paper: http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/squeak/oopsla_squeak.html Cheers! - Bert -
Hi Bert! On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 22:47 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
hum, let's say it's 3pm german time :-) I always get confused about daylight saving. I think it is actually GMT+2 at the moment.
I would have mentioned your name and more background but wasn't sure if you'd like publicity :-)
I'll try to be at the chat, and in Göteborg, too.
great!
Interesting. Maybe we can make a comparison table about the difference in approaches. For example, squeak translation is source-to-source based while PyPy's approach reuses its own bytecode-interpreter to produce a control flow graph on which it then performs type inference. The main advantage is that the flow graph does not depend on particular bytecodes or language constructs. It merely records all operations on application objects and re-constructs the program flow. But you probably know all this already :-) cheers, holger
Hi Jacob, On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 02:57 +0200, Jacob Hallen wrote:
Don't worry. I should have mentioned more prominently that this technical meeting is intended for PyPy developers irrespective of relations to the PyPy/EU project. Usually it should be fine if some of us keep the EU perspective in mind and we otherwise have open dev-meetings. cheers, holger
Hi, On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 09:21:16PM +0200, holger krekel wrote:
We implemented the following scheme, inspired by the 'testresult' svn directory: there is a distinct svn directory somewhere in 'pypy/branch' that contains a copy of a known and stable revision of a selection of directories, namely 'interpreter', 'module' and 'objspace' without 'flow'. This is to be checked out *inside* pypy/translator/goal. Then translate_pypy does some minor hacking of 'pypy.__path__' to let the directories from the branch override the directories from the complete working copy. Instructions on what to checkout exactly are given when you try to run translate_pypy.py. The scaled-down "branch" isn't meant for active development, and will never be merged back into the trunk. Occasionally, further fixes in the trunk that are needed to make the annotator happy are merged into the branch. A bientot, Armin.
Hi again, so the meeting is just finished and here are some minutes and conclusions we reached. Feel free to comment here on the list (the minutes are also checked into svn/pypy/extradoc/irclog/). cheers, holger pypy-dev meeting on #pypy at irc.freenode.net Thursday, 2nd June, 3pm (CEST == GMT+2) attendees: Armin Rigo, Samuele Pedroni, Carl Friedrich Bolz, Holger Krekel, Anders Chrigstroem, Anders Lehmann, Adrien di Mascio, Stelios Xanthakis, Bert Freudenberg topics and decisions: .. contents:: .. sectnum:: ------------------------------------------- news/infos ------------------------------------------- Bert Freudenberg introduces himself as a Squeak Developer since '97 who intends to enter the EU project and to come to the Post-EuroPython PyPy sprint. Stelios Xanthakis (mayall) has been watching PyPy from the sideline. He is the author of 'pyvm', a python virtual machine experiment. ------------------------------------------- short-term release planning ------------------------------------------- around 23rd of June we'd like to do a 0.6.2 release which includes moving our lib-python base to 2.4.1 and improved documentation (especially for newcomers). ------------------------------------------- sprint announcement/topics ------------------------------------------- although times and city are fixed already, the actual sprint topics for the post-europython sprint from 1st-7th July (both including) July in Goetheborg (Sweden) are not yet decided and announced. However, almost all active developers will come and it's already safe to reserve the time and book your flights if you want to attend a newcomer-friendly sprint. Sprint topics (Armin has already formulated a more detailed topic announcement draft in extradoc/sprintinfo/EP2005-announcement.txt): - translation : - rtyper (low-level impl of RPython objects) - genc/genllvm (might be well advanced by EP) - integrate parser module (possibly making it RPython conformant) - various topics (name some examples from the tracker) depending on people's interests ------------------------------------------- Advancing Issue Tracking: ------------------------------------------- Holger will extend/modify issue tracking so that - each issue is classsified as requiring hard, medium or easy efforts (maybe name that 'effort' or something) - milestones should go in favour of a release-field which should initially contain '0.6.2', '1.0' (mainly reflecting Milestone 1 stuff) and 'general' (not yet tied to any release in particular) later we add release values like a possible 0.7 etc.pp. ------------------------------------------- stable base for Translation efforts ------------------------------------------- giving the translation efforts a stable base: One problem with ongoing development of PyPy is that the translation process is still somewhat fragile with respect to type inference (annotation) on our source tree. -> resolved already before the meeting: see Armin's pypy-dev posting. [current approach: pypy/translator/goal contains a stable snapshot of interpreter, module and objspace directories so that main-line changes don't disturb translation work, run 'python translate_pypy.py targetpypy1.py' to get interactive advise]
participants (5)
-
Armin Rigo -
Bert Freudenberg -
holger krekel -
hpk＠trillke.net
-
Jacob Hallen