google should build a pypy phone or someone
Hi all, what do you think or know why Google choose Java over Python for its Android system? Surely, Python doesn't have a big track record in terms of targetting mobile devices. Also CPython is limited in how it can change and adapt i guess. I imagine PyPy could do much better. Wouldn't it be cool to have a totally python-based state-of-the-art phone? :) cheers, holger
On 15/02/11 11:25, holger krekel wrote:
Hi all,
what do you think or know why Google choose Java over Python for its Android system? Surely, Python doesn't have a big track record in terms of targetting mobile devices. Also CPython is limited in how it can change and adapt i guess. I imagine PyPy could do much better. Wouldn't it be cool to have a totally python-based state-of-the-art phone? :)
yes: this way, when my friends ask me what the hell I'm working on, I could just show them the phone :-) More seriously, I think that nowadays one of the most important points for a mobile platform is to have a huge selection of 3rd party apps: in this sense, the popularity of Java and the big number of developers (especially mediocre and cheap developers, which is what you need to develop most of the apps out there) is a big win for android. On the other hand, iphone shows that you can do that even if your primary language is Objective-C, but it AFAIK objc was already used quite a lot in the apple ecosystem. Anyway, back to the original topic: what would python offer more than java for android? ciao, Anto
Antonio,
Anyway, back to the original topic: what would python offer more than java for android?
a much less challenging licence-situation.
Harald -- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:52 +0100, Massa, Harald Armin wrote:
Antonio,
Anyway, back to the original topic: what would python offer more than java for android?
a much less challenging licence-situation.
Harald
for those not in the know: Oracle filed a patents lawsuit against Googles Android Dalvik VM which is maybe mostly but not completely without merits. Holger
-- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607
Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare
_______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
--
a much less challenging licence-situation.
for those not in the know: Oracle filed a patents lawsuit against Googles Android Dalvik VM which is maybe mostly but not completely without merits.
and, independend of the merits that may or may not be present, the legal expenses and collateral damage of that lawsuit will most surely be higher than the money put into PyPy the last 10years, European funding included. Harald -- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare
On 15/02/11 11:52, Massa, Harald Armin wrote:
Antonio,
Anyway, back to the original topic: what would python offer more than java for android?
a much less challenging licence-situation.
I'm not completely sure. AFAIK, the Oracle-Google lawsuit is about patents, not licences: in particular, they are complaining about how Dalvik is implemented, not about the fact that it implements Java.
From what I could read at least a couple of those patents apply to PyPy as well (and to whatever language with JIT, fwiw), e.g. IIRC there is one about "compiling an optimized version of code that executes often" or something similar (whether this patent is valid is another topic, of course).
ciao, Anto
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:14 +0100, Antonio Cuni wrote:
On 15/02/11 11:52, Massa, Harald Armin wrote:
Antonio,
Anyway, back to the original topic: what would python offer more than java for android?
a much less challenging licence-situation.
I'm not completely sure. AFAIK, the Oracle-Google lawsuit is about patents, not licences: in particular, they are complaining about how Dalvik is implemented, not about the fact that it implements Java.
From what I could read at least a couple of those patents apply to PyPy as well (and to whatever language with JIT, fwiw), e.g. IIRC there is one about "compiling an optimized version of code that executes often" or something similar (whether this patent is valid is another topic, of course).
FWIW, I haven't read that patent and i doubt Armin who invented Psyco ages ago and many parts of PyPy, has. Or other people inviting JIT-compilers since 1970 for that matter :) Being safe from patents is probably impossible, at least in the US. Still the situation with PyPy should be better as we didn't start with code that had patents already mentioned left and right. But let's try to not discuss patents and licensing too much. I am fine with it being a potentially pro-pypy aspect :) best, holger
Hi, a pypy phone would be lovely :) Especially if it could take advantage of the graphics processor (OpenGL ES2 shader language), and the programmable DSP chips (eg OMAP3). btw, python runs on nokia phones (with nokia supplied python, s60 and mamaeo/meego), windows CE phones/pocket pcs, android (see recent pygame android release), and even apple phones (it used to be technically banned from app store, but has run on i* for a long time. I guess the main "python platform" is OLPC, which is still quite interesting. ps. ) On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:25 AM, holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu> wrote:
Hi all,
what do you think or know why Google choose Java over Python for its Android system? Surely, Python doesn't have a big track record in terms of targetting mobile devices. Also CPython is limited in how it can change and adapt i guess. I imagine PyPy could do much better. Wouldn't it be cool to have a totally python-based state-of-the-art phone? :)
cheers, holger _______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
The real answers: 1. Google bought Android (company) 2. Java allows execution of untrusted 3rd party code 3, maybe, Java was "mature" around the time of acquisition, python 2.4 was released and there was psyco, but that's x86 only, when Android Inc started I guess they didn't have a serious python option at all. tools like IDEs and debuggers and hoards of underpaid Java developers in the wild surely contributed too. This topic is really not for pypy. My 2c. On 15 February 2011 03:25, holger krekel <holger@merlinux.eu> wrote:
Hi all,
what do you think or know why Google choose Java over Python for its Android system? Surely, Python doesn't have a big track record in terms of targetting mobile devices. Also CPython is limited in how it can change and adapt i guess. I imagine PyPy could do much better. Wouldn't it be cool to have a totally python-based state-of-the-art phone? :)
cheers, holger _______________________________________________ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
participants (5)
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Antonio Cuni -
Dima Tisnek -
holger krekel -
Massa, Harald Armin -
René Dudfield