Hi all, Last sprint, one of the things we integrated into PyPy was Jon's parser. There was some potential collision here: the Logilab people, Ludovic in particular, has also been working on a parser for some time. Unfortunately, the sprint started on a Saturday and the integration was mostly done by Monday, so contacting Ludovic for feed-back was difficult. After a chat with Adrien, the situation seems to be as follows: the Logilab parser is roughly ready (needs polishing) and will be checked in somewhere soon. (Checking in regularly would be a good idea anyway, even for incomplete stuff...) It ressembles Jon's in that it parses Python's Grammar file and makes a parser from that, producing nested tuples in the format that the compiler package can turn into AST and then bytecode. We will have to compare the two parsers to know more precisely the current status. I suspect that the Logilab parser is more appropriate to Logilab's and DFKI's own goals in the WP09/WP10, which involve playing around with the syntax, using a visitor pattern to generate its output; as far as I understand it, Jon's parser is not meant to be nice and flexible but mainly just a rewrite in Python of CPython's own parser. This is a bit unfortunate, as it means that some work has been done twice. Not having a Logilab person at the PyCon sprint was certainly a problem, given that they should take the lead on the parsing and compiling stages (which, I admit freely, I'm not too interested in). I'll let Adrien and Ludovic comment on this... A bientôt, Armin
Hi There, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 09:18:53AM +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
Nothing to add here. It's *nearly* ready, needs a bit of reorganization and tests. We'll try to checkin source as soon as possible.
(Checking in regularly would be a good idea anyway, even for incomplete stuff...)
You're totally right, our fault here.
I still haven't looked at Jon's parser, I'll do that quickly.
We haven't fully thought about how things will be implemented in WP09 and WP10, but we might experiment a little bit around Python's syntax, and we hope our parser will be flexible enough to build whatever we need. One of our goal when writing the parser was to be able to plug any "builder" object to be able to easily switch (and experiment) between some intermediate representation of the syntax.
This is a bit unfortunate, as it means that some work has been done twice.
Agree.
Oh ? Was this fact assumed by everybody ? If so, I think that we've missed that, but we're OK with it as it's probably a good idea in view of WP09 and WP10. Cheers, Adrien. -- Adrien Di Mascio LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org
Hi Adrien, hi Armin, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 15:01 +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
All true enough where the latter is what happened at the Pycon sprint :-) "taking the lead" IMO does not mean that individuals (or "partners" in EU speak) can decide things completely on their own. It's more a responsibility thing and involves communication at best on pypy-dev so that everybody knows what's going on, IRC only goes so far. cheers, holger
Hi all, just some quick notes for those of us not deeply into the somewhat behind-the-scenes organization of the PyPy European Union project ... On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 09:18 +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
Logilab and DFKI (www.dfki.de) are both companies that joined the PyPy "EU consortium" which is the body that receives funding from the European Union. "WP" is jargon for "Workpackage" and refers to the list of workpackages as defined for the PyPy EU project. An approximative list of all the workpackages can be found here: http://codespeak.net/issue/pypy-eu/ Let me add that IMO the PyPy project exceeds the scope of the EU project in some ways. Most of the core developers have been working and continue to work on it in their spare time as well. If you have any questions or remarks especially about the relationship between PyPy, the OpenSource project, and PyPy, the EU project, please feel free to ask. It will certainly help us to understand it better as well :-) cheers, holger
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:47:39 +0200, holger krekel <hpk@trillke.net> wrote:
Are the core developers currently living from pypy development? If that's the case, then it's really cool, because I know where my taxes go ;) To be seriuos. AFAIU the EU pays money for sprint organization and such things. How are the companies involved? Financially or in another way like (man) ressources? Regards, Florian Schulze
Hi Florian, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 13:37 +0200, Florian Schulze wrote:
Yes. However, especially Christian and me have a situation where our companies only get 50% funded which has the unfortunate consequence that we individually have to pay taxes for 100% of the money which is 50% funded ... let me just conclude that i could easily earn more money in other jobs :-)
If that's the case, then it's really cool, because I know where my taxes go ;)
:-) I would be more happy if the other parts of the EU wouldn't try to push software patents like crazy.
companies get 50% of their actual costs and have to pay the other 50% themselves. Universities and individuals get 100% of their costs. But individuals ("physical persons") are excluded from getting work costs refunded. This at least means that you can join the EU/PyPy project as an individual and get all of your travel and accomodation costs refunded (as well as conference fees and other non-work costs). Note that we actually have the procedure now in place to let individuals join the EU project in this manner. Richard Emslie and Alex Martelli have already joined the EU project as indivduals. If you are interested to join as an individual please contact a member of the technical board (if in doubt, contact me) personally. The decision if an individual can access the EU project will be taken by Armin Rigo, Christian Tismer, Samuele Pedronis and me. You must live in Europe to be able to "accede" (maybe you even need to be a Citizen of the wider European Union, not sure). cheers, holger P.S.: I have given a talk about EU/PyPy funding at the Chaos Communication conference in Berlin 2004, look it up here: http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/talk/2004-21C3-pypy-EU-hpk.pdf and note that this was a hackers conference :-)
torsdag 31 mars 2005 13.37 skrev Florian Schulze:
Yes, the Pypy EU project has a total financing of 1.3 million Euro for a project period of 2 years, starting December 2004 and ending on the last of November 2006. For most of the organisations participating, the EU pays half of the actual costs, while the organisation provides the financing of the other half. The current project members are Strakt (Samule Pedroni, Anders Chrigström, Jacob Hallen), Changemaker (Beatrice During), Merlinux (Holger Krekel), Tismerysoft (Christian Tismer), Heinrich Heine Universität (Armin Rigo), Logilab (Adrien Di Mascio and Ludovic Aubry), with DFKI as project coordinator (Alastair Burt and Stephan Busemann). More partners and people will join the project, as we had some dropouts and some problems finding the right forms for some people to get financed. Changemaker is doing project management and disemination, while Logilab and DFKI have projects that focus on extending Python. All the other partners are mainly working on reimplementing Python and making Pypy fast, flexible and beautiful. We do have some financing for subsidising travel to sprints for private persons (residents of the EU and associated countries). If you are interested, Holger is the contact person. Jacob Hallén
Hi There, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 09:18:53AM +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
Nothing to add here. It's *nearly* ready, needs a bit of reorganization and tests. We'll try to checkin source as soon as possible.
(Checking in regularly would be a good idea anyway, even for incomplete stuff...)
You're totally right, our fault here.
I still haven't looked at Jon's parser, I'll do that quickly.
We haven't fully thought about how things will be implemented in WP09 and WP10, but we might experiment a little bit around Python's syntax, and we hope our parser will be flexible enough to build whatever we need. One of our goal when writing the parser was to be able to plug any "builder" object to be able to easily switch (and experiment) between some intermediate representation of the syntax.
This is a bit unfortunate, as it means that some work has been done twice.
Agree.
Oh ? Was this fact assumed by everybody ? If so, I think that we've missed that, but we're OK with it as it's probably a good idea in view of WP09 and WP10. Cheers, Adrien. -- Adrien Di Mascio LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org
Hi Adrien, hi Armin, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 15:01 +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
All true enough where the latter is what happened at the Pycon sprint :-) "taking the lead" IMO does not mean that individuals (or "partners" in EU speak) can decide things completely on their own. It's more a responsibility thing and involves communication at best on pypy-dev so that everybody knows what's going on, IRC only goes so far. cheers, holger
Hi all, just some quick notes for those of us not deeply into the somewhat behind-the-scenes organization of the PyPy European Union project ... On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 09:18 +0100, Armin Rigo wrote:
Logilab and DFKI (www.dfki.de) are both companies that joined the PyPy "EU consortium" which is the body that receives funding from the European Union. "WP" is jargon for "Workpackage" and refers to the list of workpackages as defined for the PyPy EU project. An approximative list of all the workpackages can be found here: http://codespeak.net/issue/pypy-eu/ Let me add that IMO the PyPy project exceeds the scope of the EU project in some ways. Most of the core developers have been working and continue to work on it in their spare time as well. If you have any questions or remarks especially about the relationship between PyPy, the OpenSource project, and PyPy, the EU project, please feel free to ask. It will certainly help us to understand it better as well :-) cheers, holger
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:47:39 +0200, holger krekel <hpk@trillke.net> wrote:
Are the core developers currently living from pypy development? If that's the case, then it's really cool, because I know where my taxes go ;) To be seriuos. AFAIU the EU pays money for sprint organization and such things. How are the companies involved? Financially or in another way like (man) ressources? Regards, Florian Schulze
Hi Florian, On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 13:37 +0200, Florian Schulze wrote:
Yes. However, especially Christian and me have a situation where our companies only get 50% funded which has the unfortunate consequence that we individually have to pay taxes for 100% of the money which is 50% funded ... let me just conclude that i could easily earn more money in other jobs :-)
If that's the case, then it's really cool, because I know where my taxes go ;)
:-) I would be more happy if the other parts of the EU wouldn't try to push software patents like crazy.
companies get 50% of their actual costs and have to pay the other 50% themselves. Universities and individuals get 100% of their costs. But individuals ("physical persons") are excluded from getting work costs refunded. This at least means that you can join the EU/PyPy project as an individual and get all of your travel and accomodation costs refunded (as well as conference fees and other non-work costs). Note that we actually have the procedure now in place to let individuals join the EU project in this manner. Richard Emslie and Alex Martelli have already joined the EU project as indivduals. If you are interested to join as an individual please contact a member of the technical board (if in doubt, contact me) personally. The decision if an individual can access the EU project will be taken by Armin Rigo, Christian Tismer, Samuele Pedronis and me. You must live in Europe to be able to "accede" (maybe you even need to be a Citizen of the wider European Union, not sure). cheers, holger P.S.: I have given a talk about EU/PyPy funding at the Chaos Communication conference in Berlin 2004, look it up here: http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/talk/2004-21C3-pypy-EU-hpk.pdf and note that this was a hackers conference :-)
torsdag 31 mars 2005 13.37 skrev Florian Schulze:
Yes, the Pypy EU project has a total financing of 1.3 million Euro for a project period of 2 years, starting December 2004 and ending on the last of November 2006. For most of the organisations participating, the EU pays half of the actual costs, while the organisation provides the financing of the other half. The current project members are Strakt (Samule Pedroni, Anders Chrigström, Jacob Hallen), Changemaker (Beatrice During), Merlinux (Holger Krekel), Tismerysoft (Christian Tismer), Heinrich Heine Universität (Armin Rigo), Logilab (Adrien Di Mascio and Ludovic Aubry), with DFKI as project coordinator (Alastair Burt and Stephan Busemann). More partners and people will join the project, as we had some dropouts and some problems finding the right forms for some people to get financed. Changemaker is doing project management and disemination, while Logilab and DFKI have projects that focus on extending Python. All the other partners are mainly working on reimplementing Python and making Pypy fast, flexible and beautiful. We do have some financing for subsidising travel to sprints for private persons (residents of the EU and associated countries). If you are interested, Holger is the contact person. Jacob Hallén
participants (6)
-
Adrien Di Mascio -
Alexander Kellett -
Armin Rigo -
Florian Schulze -
hpk＠trillke.net -
Jacob Hallen