Python-announce-list March 2003

python-announce-list@python.org

57 participants
75 discussions

Summary of PEP 308 Vote for a Ternary Operator
by pep308vote＠hotmail.com 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

The PEP 308 vote is summarized at: http://tinyurl.com/763f Here are some of the highlights: * 518 votes were received. Of these, 82 used a RejectAll ballot and 436 used the original ballot. * 363 had a preferred syntax they found acceptable while 155 found no acceptable syntax. * For the second ranked syntax, the ratio dropped to 286:231 in favor of a change. This means that 77 people found only one syntax to be acceptable. * For the third ranked syntax, the ratio dropped to 202:312. This indicates that over half of the voters would prefer no change if they can't have one of their first two choices. * The highest ranked constructs were: 235 for (if C: x else: y) 206 for C ? x : y * The 235 breaks down to 177 accepting and 58 rejecting. If the RejectAll votes are attributed entirely to that syntax, the ratio becomes 177 favoring to 140 opposing. * The individual votes were highly expressive and are worth reviewing: http://tinyurl.com/75z2 http://tinyurl.com/75z3 * The write-in votes had more accepts than rejects but had no clustering of syntax preferences. * The downfall of all voting systems is not in the data collection, rather it is in the way the rankings are combined. I avoid this issue by not declaring a winner. Instead, Guido is being given a straight tally and a copy of all of the individual votes. This works especially well because his vote outweighs all of the others. * Though the results lean towards accepting the PEP as proposed, it is not decisive. Some of the no-change votes included strong pleas. This will certainly be a consideration. * There were three or four ballots received after this summary was prepared but before it was posted. I'll include them for Guido in a separate email. Please stop sending in new votes. Raymond Hettinger

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Summary of PEP 308 Vote for a Ternary Operator
by pep308vote＠hotmail.com 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

The PEP 308 vote is summarized at: http://tinyurl.com/763f Here are some of the highlights: * 518 votes were received. Of these, 82 used a RejectAll ballot and 436 used the original ballot. * 363 had a preferred syntax they found acceptable while 155 found no acceptable syntax. * For the second ranked syntax, the ratio dropped to 286:231 in favor of a change. This means that 77 people found only one syntax to be acceptable. * For the third ranked syntax, the ratio dropped to 202:312. This indicates that over half of the voters would prefer no change if they can't have one of their first two choices. * The highest ranked constructs were: 235 for (if C: x else: y) 206 for C ? x : y * The 235 breaks down to 177 accepting and 58 rejecting. If the RejectAll votes are attributed entirely to that syntax, the ratio becomes 177 favoring to 140 opposing. * The individual votes were highly expressive and are worth reviewing: http://tinyurl.com/75z2 http://tinyurl.com/75z3 * The write-in votes had more accepts than rejects but had no clustering of syntax preferences. * The downfall of all voting systems is not in the data collection, rather it is in the way the rankings are combined. I avoid this issue by not declaring a winner. Instead, Guido is being given a straight tally and a copy of all of the individual votes. This works especially well because his vote outweighs all of the others. * Though the results leans toward accepting the PEP as proposed, it is not decisive. Some of the no-change votes included strong pleas. This will certainly be a consideration. * There were three or four ballots received after this summary was prepared but before it was posted. I'll include them for Guido in a separate email. Please stop sending in new votes.

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Toronto-area Python/Zope user group, Tuesday March 25, 8-10pm
by Peter Hansen 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

This is to announce the next PyGTA (Toronto and area Python/Zope User Group) meeting, which will be held Tuesday, March 25, 2003. (Apologies for making this so close to PyCon DC 2003 (http://www.python.org/pycon/) but it was again the only day free.) The location is the same as the last few times, but back in room 23 again instead of the auditorium. Further details will as usual be posted to our wiki page at http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting . -Peter and Ian, meeting organizers

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Updated Cygwin Package: python-2.2.2-7
by Jason Tishler 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

New News: === ==== I have updated the version of Python to 2.2.2-7. The tarballs should be available on a Cygwin mirror near you shortly. On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 05:18:07PM -0500, Jason Tishler wrote: > Otherwise, this package should be identical to the previous one. I knew when I wrote the above I would regret it. :,) The only purpose of this release is to fix a build issue that prevented the _tkinter module from being included in the python-2.2.2-6 package. I apologize for any inconvenience. Old News: === ==== Python is an interpreted, interactive, object-oriented programming language. If interested, see the Python web site for more details: http://www.python.org/ Please read the README file: /usr/doc/Cygwin/python-2.2.2.README since it covers requirements, installation, known issues, etc. To update your installation, click on the "Install Cygwin now" link on the http://cygwin.com/ web page. This downloads setup.exe to your system. Then, run setup and answer all of the questions. Note that we have recently stopped downloads from sources.redhat.com (aka cygwin.com) due to bandwidth limitations. This means that you will need to find a mirror which has this update. In the US, ftp://mirrors.rcn.net/mirrors/sources.redhat.com/cygwin/ is a reliable high bandwidth connection. In Germany, ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/pc/gnuwin32/cygwin/mirrors/cygnus/ is usually pretty good. In the UK, http://programming.ccp14.ac.uk/ftp-mirror/programming/cygwin/pub/cygwin/ is usually up-to-date within 48 hours. If one of the above doesn't have the latest version of this package then you can either wait for the site to be updated or find another mirror. The setup.exe program will figure out what needs to be updated on your system and will install newer packages automatically. If you have questions or comments, please send them to the Cygwin mailing list at: cygwin(a)cygwin.com . I would appreciate if you would use this mailing list rather than emailing me directly. This includes ideas and comments about the setup utility or Cygwin in general. If you want to make a point or ask a question, the Cygwin mailing list is the appropriate place. *** CYGWIN-ANNOUNCE UNSUBSCRIBE INFO *** If you want to unsubscribe from the cygwin-announce mailing list, look at the "List-Unsubscribe: " tag in the email header of this message. Send email to the address specified there. It will be in the format: cygwin-announce-unsubscribe-you=yourdomain.com(a)cygwin.com Jason -- PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D 8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6

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Spec: Python XML templating language (PXTL)
by Andrew Clover 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

PXTL is a specification for a templating format mixing XML-based markup languages with Python code. It is especially suitable for use in a web application's page output stage. *Another* web templating system? Yes, I'm afraid so. PXTL does have a few features which are (as far as I know) unique, though: - it's a pure-XML format, which should make syntax and nesting errors very easy to debug (especially with a syntax-colouring, well-formedness checking text editor); - output can automatically be translated into legacy (non-XML) HTML or non-tag-based formats; - a number of XML processing instructions for including content in various common escaping formats; - elements from a separate namespace for flow-control (if, for, def, etc.), to allow a Python code hierarchy and XML markup hierarchy to be mixed cleanly. I'm pleased to announce the second draft of the PXTL specification, and I'd appreciate any feedback on it from web and XML authors (in particular those familiar with XHTML) either by mail or to c.l.py. http://www.doxdesk.com/pxtl/ A reference implementation will be made available (under some manner of open-source licence) some time in the next few months, taking into account any comments received. cheers, -- Andrew Clover mailto:and@doxdesk.com http://www.doxdesk.com/

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RESULTS: Complementary PEP308 Ternary Vote
by Norman Petry 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

IMPORTANT NOTE: The results shown below are for the complementary, UNOFFICIAL vote on the issue of adding a ternary operator to Python (PEP308). These results will probably be a bit different from the OFFICIAL results, which are being tabulated by Raymond Hettinger using a different technique and a different set of ballots. Both sets of results are non-binding, and intended only to advise the BDFL about the Python community's wishes regarding the implementation of PEP308. Hopefully, this supplemental vote will provide Guido van Rossum with additional insight into the wishes of Python users. See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-March/151680.html for additional information about this vote. This COMPLEMENTARY vote used a ranked ballot and Condorcet's method to determine a winner. For background information about how this method works, see: http://www.electionmethods.org/CondorcetEx.htm The results shown below are based on 101 ballots received over a one week period (March 3-9). The ballots themselves may be viewed here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-March/152304.html VOTING SOFTWARE =============== GNU GPL-licensed voting software written in Python is available to verify these results. It could also be used again in future votes if the Python community wishes to use Condorcet's method to advise the BDFL on other PEPs. You can download a package containing this software as well as all the data used for this vote from: http://24.72.22.210/pepvote.tar.gz This software was written and tested using Python 2.2 running on Red Hat Linux 8.0. Use on other platforms may require some adaptation. SINGLE WINNER ============= The Condorcet Winner is: "NO TERNARY". SOCIAL RANKING (Tideman) ======================== 1. NO TERNARY 2. if C then t else f 3. (if C: t else: f) 4. C ? t : f 5. if C: t else: f 6. t if C else f 7. C then t else f 8. t when C else f 9. C ? t ! f 10. C ?? t || f 11. C ? t else f 12. when C: t else f 13. C -> t else f 14. case C: t else f 15. ifelse C: t else f 16. select C: t else f 17. cond(C, t, f) 18. C -> (t, f) 19. C and t else f 20. <if C then t else f> 21. [t if C else f] Kemeny Score: 9681 PAIRWISE COMPARISONS ==================== Option "NO TERNARY": beats option "if C then t else f" [50 - 43] beats option "(if C: t else: f)" [50 - 45] beats option "C ? t : f" [54 - 41] beats option "if C: t else: f" [55 - 38] beats option "t if C else f" [56 - 36] beats option "C then t else f" [64 - 29] beats option "t when C else f" [67 - 25] beats option "C ? t ! f" [70 - 23] beats option "C ?? t || f" [70 - 23] beats option "C ? t else f" [69 - 23] beats option "when C: t else f" [73 - 17] beats option "C -> t else f" [75 - 17] beats option "case C: t else f" [74 - 15] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [76 - 13] beats option "select C: t else f" [75 - 14] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [74 - 19] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [76 - 15] beats option "C and t else f" [73 - 17] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [78 - 13] beats option "[t if C else f]" [80 - 12] Option "if C then t else f": beats option "(if C: t else: f)" [38 - 37] beats option "C ? t : f" [41 - 36] beats option "if C: t else: f" [45 - 32] beats option "t if C else f" [43 - 31] beats option "C then t else f" [51 - 15] beats option "t when C else f" [54 - 19] beats option "C ? t ! f" [52 - 20] beats option "C ?? t || f" [51 - 21] beats option "C ? t else f" [55 - 13] beats option "when C: t else f" [61 - 9] beats option "C -> t else f" [62 - 7] beats option "case C: t else f" [63 - 5] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [63 - 4] beats option "select C: t else f" [63 - 6] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [62 - 10] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [63 - 6] beats option "C and t else f" [61 - 8] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [60 - 7] beats option "[t if C else f]" [62 - 9] Option "(if C: t else: f)": beats option "C ? t : f" [47 - 33] beats option "if C: t else: f" [44 - 26] beats option "t if C else f" [47 - 32] beats option "C then t else f" [52 - 23] beats option "t when C else f" [55 - 21] beats option "C ? t ! f" [60 - 13] beats option "C ?? t || f" [59 - 14] beats option "C ? t else f" [62 - 8] beats option "when C: t else f" [63 - 7] beats option "C -> t else f" [62 - 7] beats option "case C: t else f" [66 - 1] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [67 - 1] beats option "select C: t else f" [66 - 2] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [65 - 8] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [62 - 8] beats option "C and t else f" [63 - 7] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [64 - 1] beats option "[t if C else f]" [64 - 6] Option "C ? t : f": beats option "if C: t else: f" [40 - 37] beats option "t if C else f" [43 - 37] beats option "C then t else f" [44 - 32] beats option "t when C else f" [49 - 28] beats option "C ? t ! f" [54 - 5] beats option "C ?? t || f" [53 - 7] beats option "C ? t else f" [55 - 10] beats option "when C: t else f" [57 - 13] beats option "C -> t else f" [54 - 10] beats option "case C: t else f" [59 - 12] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [59 - 8] beats option "select C: t else f" [59 - 11] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [56 - 15] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [56 - 6] beats option "C and t else f" [53 - 14] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [57 - 11] beats option "[t if C else f]" [60 - 10] Option "if C: t else: f": beats option "t if C else f" [47 - 34] beats option "C then t else f" [53 - 27] beats option "t when C else f" [56 - 23] beats option "C ? t ! f" [56 - 15] beats option "C ?? t || f" [55 - 16] beats option "C ? t else f" [57 - 13] beats option "when C: t else f" [59 - 11] beats option "C -> t else f" [59 - 9] beats option "case C: t else f" [63 - 6] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [64 - 5] beats option "select C: t else f" [62 - 7] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [59 - 11] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [61 - 9] beats option "C and t else f" [62 - 8] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [59 - 7] beats option "[t if C else f]" [60 - 11] Option "t if C else f": beats option "C then t else f" [39 - 33] beats option "t when C else f" [52 - 9] beats option "C ? t ! f" [45 - 29] beats option "C ?? t || f" [44 - 31] beats option "C ? t else f" [46 - 26] beats option "when C: t else f" [45 - 24] beats option "C -> t else f" [50 - 20] beats option "case C: t else f" [46 - 22] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [49 - 18] beats option "select C: t else f" [49 - 19] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [54 - 17] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [50 - 22] beats option "C and t else f" [48 - 19] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [48 - 23] beats option "[t if C else f]" [54 - 8] Option "C then t else f": beats option "t when C else f" [41 - 21] beats option "C ? t ! f" [42 - 24] beats option "C ?? t || f" [40 - 25] beats option "C ? t else f" [42 - 21] beats option "when C: t else f" [48 - 15] beats option "C -> t else f" [52 - 11] beats option "case C: t else f" [50 - 11] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [55 - 5] beats option "select C: t else f" [52 - 9] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [47 - 19] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [55 - 11] beats option "C and t else f" [52 - 7] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [52 - 14] beats option "[t if C else f]" [54 - 10] Option "t when C else f": beats option "C ? t ! f" [34 - 32] beats option "C ?? t || f" [34 - 30] beats option "C ? t else f" [36 - 29] beats option "when C: t else f" [31 - 27] beats option "C -> t else f" [39 - 22] beats option "case C: t else f" [31 - 27] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [39 - 20] beats option "select C: t else f" [36 - 23] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [42 - 23] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [40 - 24] beats option "C and t else f" [35 - 23] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [38 - 25] beats option "[t if C else f]" [43 - 12] Option "C ? t ! f": beats option "C ?? t || f" [29 - 18] beats option "C ? t else f" [31 - 19] beats option "when C: t else f" [34 - 24] beats option "C -> t else f" [34 - 13] beats option "case C: t else f" [40 - 19] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [40 - 13] beats option "select C: t else f" [40 - 16] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [37 - 20] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [37 - 15] beats option "C and t else f" [40 - 18] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [36 - 16] beats option "[t if C else f]" [44 - 11] Option "C ?? t || f": beats option "C ? t else f" [29 - 22] beats option "when C: t else f" [34 - 23] beats option "C -> t else f" [35 - 14] beats option "case C: t else f" [38 - 18] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [41 - 13] beats option "select C: t else f" [38 - 17] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [36 - 21] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [36 - 13] beats option "C and t else f" [34 - 20] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [35 - 18] beats option "[t if C else f]" [42 - 12] Option "C ? t else f": beats option "when C: t else f" [31 - 25] beats option "C -> t else f" [33 - 11] beats option "case C: t else f" [39 - 17] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [41 - 11] beats option "select C: t else f" [39 - 15] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [36 - 20] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [39 - 12] beats option "C and t else f" [37 - 18] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [38 - 15] beats option "[t if C else f]" [41 - 13] Option "when C: t else f": beats option "C -> t else f" [28 - 21] beats option "case C: t else f" [33 - 5] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [28 - 12] beats option "select C: t else f" [28 - 11] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [33 - 20] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [31 - 23] beats option "C and t else f" [32 - 18] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [33 - 18] beats option "[t if C else f]" [35 - 16] Option "C -> t else f": beats option "case C: t else f" [28 - 23] beats option "ifelse C: t else f" [28 - 17] beats option "select C: t else f" [28 - 20] loses to option "cond(C, t, f)" [24 - 27] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [32 - 10] beats option "C and t else f" [31 - 20] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [27 - 20] beats option "[t if C else f]" [32 - 17] Option "case C: t else f": ties option "ifelse C: t else f" [18 - 18] ties option "select C: t else f" [16 - 16] beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [30 - 24] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [28 - 25] beats option "C and t else f" [29 - 18] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [32 - 18] beats option "[t if C else f]" [34 - 15] Option "ifelse C: t else f": beats option "select C: t else f" [22 - 11] ties option "cond(C, t, f)" [26 - 26] loses to option "C -> (t, f)" [23 - 25] beats option "C and t else f" [24 - 22] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [27 - 20] beats option "[t if C else f]" [29 - 17] Option "select C: t else f": beats option "cond(C, t, f)" [28 - 24] beats option "C -> (t, f)" [26 - 25] beats option "C and t else f" [26 - 20] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [30 - 18] beats option "[t if C else f]" [30 - 16] Option "cond(C, t, f)": beats option "C -> (t, f)" [28 - 24] beats option "C and t else f" [30 - 26] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [28 - 25] beats option "[t if C else f]" [29 - 24] Option "C -> (t, f)": beats option "C and t else f" [27 - 24] beats option "<if C then t else f>" [26 - 23] beats option "[t if C else f]" [33 - 17] Option "C and t else f": beats option "<if C then t else f>" [26 - 25] beats option "[t if C else f]" [29 - 20] Option "<if C then t else f>": beats option "[t if C else f]" [26 - 17] -- Norman Petry

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BALLOTS: Complementary PEP308 Ternary Vote
by Norman Petry 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

IMPORTANT NOTE: The ballot information contained in this message is for the Complementary, UNOFFICIAL vote on the issue of adding a ternary operator to Python (PEP308). It is NOT the data that will be used to determine the OFFICIAL results, which are being tabulated by Raymond Hettinger. This COMPLEMENTARY vote uses a different type of ballot, as well as a different method of tallying them (Condorcet's Method) which should provide additional insight into the preferences of the Python community regarding PEP308. See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-March/151680.html for additional information about this vote. If you voted in this complementary vote, please check the list below to determine that your ballot was counted correctly. Results from this vote vote will be posted in a followup message, entitled: "RESULTS: Complementary PEP308 Ternary Vote" -- Norman Petry OPTIONS ======= 01 = NO TERNARY 02 = t if C else f 03 = if C then t else f 04 = (if C: t else: f) 05 = if C: t else: f 06 = C ? t : f 07 = C ? t ! f 08 = cond(C, t, f) 09 = C ?? t || f 10 = C then t else f 11 = t when C else f 12 = C ? t else f 13 = C -> t else f 14 = C -> (t, f) 15 = [t if C else f] 16 = ifelse C: t else f 17 = select C: t else f 18 = when C: t else f 19 = case C: t else f 20 = <if C then t else f> 21 = C and t else f BALLOTS ======= 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 "Voter Name" <email address> ============================================================== 05|11|11|02|03|01|12|10|04|12|12|12|13|13|14|08|09|06|07|14|15 "" <PYgs(a)qfs.de> 03|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "" <gyromaPYgnetic(a)excite.com> 01|09|06|15|05|03|15|25|25|25|13|20|20|20|99|99|99|99|99|99|80 "" <hoPYward(a)eegsoftware.com> 11|20|04|01|02|03|14|15|16|07|08|09|17|18|19|13|10|05|06|12|21 "" <mstoPYne(a)ugcs.caltech.edu> 02|01|09|13|14|04|06|10|05|08|03|07|11|12|19|17|18|15|16|21|20 "" <pPYaul(a)svensson.org> 03|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|02|XX "" <prPYen_lexen(a)fastmail.fm> 02|02|02|03|03|02|03|03|03|01|01|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03 "alan haffner" <yaiPYpa(a)yahoo.com> 01|13|04|02|09|XX|XX|XX|XX|08|12|XX|XX|XX|03|14|06|05|07|10|11 "Alex Martelli" <aleaxPY(a)aleax.it> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Amos Latteier" <amPYos(a)aracnet.com> 01|06|06|02|08|10|10|07|10|04|06|09|09|10|03|05|05|05|05|02|04 "Anders Hammarquist" <iPYko(a)cd.chalmers.se> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Andrew Dalke" <adaPYlke(a)mindspring.com> 01|02|03|XX|XX|04|08|09|XX|07|XX|06|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|05|XX|XX|XX "Andrew Hamilton" <aPYnd_hamilton(a)yahoo.com> 05|06|06|06|08|02|01|08|02|06|07|04|04|03|06|06|06|07|06|06|06 "Andrew Reid" <andrew.PYreid(a)nist.gov> 07|05|08|02|03|01|08|08|08|08|06|08|08|08|08|08|08|08|08|04|08 "Andrew Sterian" <steriPYana(a)claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu> 06|01|09|10|11|04|02|12|08|13|03|05|19|20|14|15|16|18|17|21|07 "Barry A. Warsaw" <baPYrry(a)python.org> 02|12|09|03|02|02|05|14|04|08|13|06|05|07|13|11|11|11|11|10|01 "Beni Cherniavsky" <cbenPY(a)techunix.technion.ac.il> 01|99|99|99|03|10|10|99|10|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99 "Berthold =?iso-8859-1?q?H=F6llmann?=" <bhoPYel(a)web.de> 11|12|04|03|05|01|06|13|02|02|12|04|07|08|12|09|09|09|09|06|10 "Carl Banks" <pep308PY(a)aerojockey.com> 15|01|02|05|06|07|09|16|10|03|04|11|13|18|20|12|14|08|17|21|19 "Chermside, Michael" <mchPYermside(a)ingdirect.com> 09|01|02|04|05|06|14|07|21|11|08|13|10|03|19|15|16|12|17|20|18 "Colin Dewey" <cndeweyPY(a)yahoo.com> 06|99|07|01|02|03|99|99|08|99|99|04|99|09|99|99|99|99|10|07|05 "David Schnepper" <davidPYsch(a)verity.com> 05|51|21|01|02|10|11|03|12|22|52|13|98|99|53|31|32|33|34|41|04 "David Stegbauer" <dsPYtegbauer(a)post.cz> 21|16|03|02|01|12|13|19|14|04|17|15|10|11|18|08|07|05|06|09|20 "Davide Di Blasi" <davide.di-blasiPY(a)st.com> 04|XX|03|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Denis S. Otkidach" <PYods(a)strana.ru> 01|XX|01|01|02|XX|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|02|01|XX|XX|XX|02|XX|02|XX "Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfrPYaed(a)ix.netcom.com> 03|01|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|05|04|XX|XX|XX|06|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Donnal Walter" <dPYonnal(a)donnal.net> XX|XX|01|04|03|XX|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Doug Henderson" <djPYhender(a)telusplanet.net> 01|XX|XX|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "douglas savitsky" <dsavitskPY(a)mail.e-coli.net> XX|01|03|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|04|05|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "dwelch" <dwelPYch91(a)attbi.com> 11|09|01|03|02|05|06|08|07|04|10|12|18|19|20|13|14|15|16|17|21 "Egbert Bouwman" <egbert.lPYist(a)hccnet.nl> 16|17|05|04|03|01|02|19|10|08|20|06|07|09|21|13|18|12|14|11|15 "Elron A. Yellin" <PYelronayellin(a)attbi.com> 03|01|05|09|08|15|17|10|18|11|02|14|13|16|04|19|20|07|21|06|12 "Eric Pettersen" <pPYett(a)cgl.ucsf.edu> 06|04|03|01|02|15|16|21|17|08|09|20|18|19|07|10|11|12|13|05|14 "Evan Simpson" <evPYan(a)4-am.com> 05|01|XX|02|04|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Felix Beer" <PYf.beer(a)indec.at> 13|11|03|02|04|01|XX|10|09|07|12|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|05|06|XX|08 "Fernando Perez" <fpPYerez(a)colorado.edu> 08|05|00|02|01|03|09|17|10|16|04|11|12|20|06|13|14|07|15|19|18 "Gareth McCaughan" <gareth.mccaughanPY(a)pobox.com> 01|01|04|XX|XX|03|03|XX|02|04|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Geoff Gerrietts" <gePYoff(a)homegain.com> 04|03|01|08|03|99|99|99|99|08|08|99|99|99|99|99|99|08|08|99|99 "george young" <PYgry(a)ll.mit.edu> 02|01|05|09|10|11|12|XX|14|03|06|13|04|08|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|07 "Gerd Woetzel" <gerd.PYwoetzel(a)fit.fraunhofer.de> XX|99|10|01|09|08|08|07|08|10|99|03|08|20|99|XX|XX|XX|XX|02|XX "Gerhard Kirchmann" <gerhaPYrd1.kirchmann(a)nexgo.de> 02|01|07|04|04|07|07|05|07|06|06|07|07|07|01|07|05|03|05|07|06 "Giovanni Bajo" <giovPYannibajo(a)libero.it> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Gordon Williams" <g_wPYill(a)cyberus.ca> 01|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|04|XX|XX|XX|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Greg Krohn" <PYgreg(a)capra.us> 05|04|02|02|02|01|02|06|02|02|04|02|02|06|04|03|03|03|03|02|03 "Greg McFarlane" <PYgregm(a)iname.com> 01|XX|XX|XX|10|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Guido Goldstein" <pepvote308PY(a)a-nugget.de> 11|04|03|09|08|14|16|17|15|05|01|13|18|19|12|20|06|02|07|21|10 "Harvey Thomas" <hsPYt(a)empolis.co.uk> 20|03|04|16|14|11|06|19|05|07|02|01|10|15|08|13|18|12|17|21|09 "Ian Bicking" <ianbPY(a)colorstudy.com> 03|04|02|06|XX|07|XX|XX|XX|01|05|08|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Ian Douglas Bollinger" <escovPYan(a)myrealbox.com> 05|12|01|02|02|04|06|16|06|03|13|06|06|11|15|08|09|04|09|10|14 "Jakob Schiotz" <sPYchiotz(a)fysik.dtu.dk> 07|XX|03|01|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|08|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|06|04|XX|05|XX|XX "Jens =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen?= Mortensen" <jjPYm(a)tiscali.dk> XX|XX|01|04|03|02|XX|XX|XX|05|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Jim Fulton" <jimPY(a)zope.com> 03|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "john grosspietsch" <jPYohnkg(a)earthlink.net> 04|02|05|08|09|03|17|18|10|07|01|11|12|13|20|14|06|15|16|20|19 "John Hazen" <pPYython-list(a)hazen.net> 14|11|03|05|02|01|06|21|07|04|19|08|09|10|20|16|18|15|17|12|13 "John J Smith" <jPYohnjsmith(a)rediffmail.com> 04|01|03|06|05|07|12|10|08|11|02|14|13|09|18|17|16|15|16|18|18 "John Williams" <PYjrw(a)pobox.com> 01|03|02|03|03|03|03|03|03|02|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03|03 "Jp Calderone" <exarkunPY(a)intarweb.us> 02|XX|01|XX|XX|03|XX|XX|03|01|XX|XX|XX|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|03 "Kirill Simonov" <kirill_simonPYov(a)mail.ru> XX|XX|XX|XX|02|01|03|04|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Korolkov Dmitry" <korolkoPYv(a)lcard.ru> 03|02|02|XX|03|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "L&E Druker" <ledrukerPY(a)rogers.com> 03|04|04|01|04|04|04|04|04|02|04|04|04|04|04|04|04|04|04|04|04 "Luis P Caamano" <lcaamanoPY(a)mindspring.com> XX|XX|XX|XX|02|01|XX|XX|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|04|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Lutz Schroeer" <lschPYroeer(a)elektroelch.de> 01|20|04|07|06|05|17|02|18|03|21|14|15|16|19|12|13|09|11|10|08 "Magnus Lycka" <maPYgnus(a)thinkware.se> 08|XX|06|02|05|03|04|XX|01|XX|XX|07|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Manuel M. Garcia" <mPYgarcia(a)cole-switches.com> 01|05|06|02|04|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|08|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|03|07|XX|XX "Matthew Dixon Cowles" <mattPY(a)mondoinfo.com> XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|01|03|XX|02|XX|XX|05|06|XX|XX|XX|XX|04|XX|XX|XX "Michael Gleicher" <glePYicher(a)cs.wisc.edu> 02|99|99|01|90|95|95|99|05|99|99|98|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99|99 "Mike Howard" <mikPYe(a)clove.com> 03|04|01|02|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|05|05|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Mike Rovner" <PYmrovner(a)hotmail.com> 06|19|01|03|04|02|09|05|10|07|20|08|11|12|21|13|14|15|16|17|18 "Nick Coghlan" <ncoghPYlan(a)email.com> 01|XX|XX|02|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|04|XX|XX|XX|XX "Nick Efford" <ndePY(a)comp.leeds.ac.uk> 02|01|17|03|06|13|15|05|16|19|04|08|09|14|20|12|11|07|10|18|21 "Norman Petry" <npePYtry(a)accesscomm.ca> 09|10|11|01|12|02|03|21|04|13|14|06|07|08|05|15|16|17|18|20|19 "Oleg Broytmann" <pPYhd(a)phd.pp.ru> 04|03|05|01|05|02|99|99|99|06|06|05|06|99|99|06|06|06|06|99|06 "Oliver Schaefer" <schaPYeferffm(a)gmx.de> 16|05|01|04|02|06|09|12|14|03|14|11|08|07|17|15|13|13|13|17|10 "Parzival Herzog" <PYparz(a)shaw.ca> 01|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|08|XX|XX|11|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Paul Paterson" <paulpatersPYon(a)houston.rr.com> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Paul Sidorsky" <pauPYlsid(a)shaw.ca> 04|05|03|01|02|06|06|05|XX|05|XX|05|06|06|XX|06|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Peter Maxwell" <maxwePYll(a)biolateral.com.au> 07|XX|03|02|02|01|05|04|05|05|XX|05|06|06|XX|07|07|07|07|02|XX "phil hunt" <philhPY(a)cabalamat.org> 08|16|03|04|09|11|01|07|02|06|17|05|21|20|18|14|15|12|13|19|10 "Piers Lauder" <pierPYs(a)cs.su.oz.au> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Rafal Smotrzyk" <rsmotrPYzyk(a)mikroplan.com.pl> 08|XX|01|04|03|02|XX|XX|XX|06|XX|07|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|05 "Ralph Corderoy" <PYralph(a)inputplus.co.uk> 06|19|02|01|07|14|15|10|16|11|21|17|12|13|20|03|04|09|05|08|18 "Randolph Brown" <rgbPY(a)panix.com> 01|04|XX|02|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Richard Emslie" <rxPYe(a)ukshells.co.uk> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Richard Jones" <richardjPYones(a)optushome.com.au> 14|18|10|01|09|03|04|13|05|06|17|12|11|16|07|08|08|08|08|02|15 "Robin Munn" <rmPYunn(a)pobox.com> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Rod Haper" <rhaPYper(a)houston.rr.com> XX|02|01|05|04|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Russell E. Owen" <rPYowen(a)cesmail.net> 04|02|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Sean Ross" <seanPYdavidross(a)hotmail.com> 02|03|97|97|03|99|99|01|99|06|04|99|99|99|99|98|98|05|98|99|03 "Shane Holloway (IEEE)" <PYshane.holloway(a)ieee.org> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Stephan Deibel" <sdeibPYel(a)wingide.com> 15|12|04|08|08|07|02|14|01|05|12|03|06|06|13|09|09|09|09|10|11 "Stephen A. Langer" <stePYphen.langer(a)nist.gov> 01|15|04|02|03|06|07|21|09|10|16|08|13|14|17|18|19|11|12|20|05 "Ted Horst" <tedPY.horst(a)ubsw.com> 07|05|XX|XX|XX|03|04|XX|XX|01|06|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|02 "Terry Reedy" <tjrePYedy(a)udel.edu> 01|XX|03|02|03|02|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|03|XX "Thomas Wouters" <thomPYas(a)xs4all.net> 01|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Tim Evans" <t.evansPY(a)paradise.net.nz> XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Tom Culliton" <culPYliton(a)io.com> 01|02|XX|03|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <PYtony(a)lsl.co.uk> 09|06|06|01|04|03|05|08|05|06|06|07|07|03|04|06|06|06|06|02|06 "Treutwein Guido" <guido.treutweinPY(a)siemens.com> XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Vladimir Pastukhov" <PYvlpast(a)mail.ru> 01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "Walter Moreira" <walterPYm(a)parque.homelinux.net> 20|01|04|09|08|10|11|19|03|05|02|06|07|17|18|12|15|13|14|21|16 "Werner Schiendl" <PYws-news(a)gmx.at> XX|03|XX|02|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|01|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX|XX "William Dode" <wPYilk(a)flibuste.net> ============================================================== Remove "PY" from voter email addresses before sending mail. Total Ballots: 101

1 0

New scriptable Scintilla and QT based Text Editor
by Heiko Köhler 08 Mar '03

08 Mar '03

I have just released 0.1.2 of CUTE. The CUTE User-friendly Text Editor is a scintilla and QT based code editor, which can be extented using the python scripting language. In addition CUTE has a command box for vi-like commands. It is available for X11/Linux and should be portable to other platforms. In addition CUTE has a command box for vi-like commands. The project page of CUTE is http://cute.sourceforge.net. It has also a page at sourceforge.net: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cute

1 0

Reminder re: Complementary Vote on PEP Three-Zero-Eight
by Norman Petry 08 Mar '03

08 Mar '03

This message is to remind you that TOMORROW (Saturday) is the last day to vote in the complementary, UNOFFICIAL vote on adding a ternary operator to Python (PEP-308). Response has been good so far, but the more people that participate, the more useful the results will be. Please participate if you have the time. A copy of the ballot, and instructions on how to vote are included below, in case you missed the first announcement. More information about this additional vote, and why it was organized will be found here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-March/151680.html ***** IMPORTANT NOTE: This is NOT a ballot for the "official" PEP-308 vote being run by Raymond Hettinger. It is for a different vote that is intended to COMPLEMENT the results of the official vote, by using a different type of ballot, and a different method of tallying the results (Condorcet's Method), for those who may be interested. If enough people choose to participate, it will provide a high-quality source of additional information about the preferences of the Python community regarding the ternary operator. This vote is NOT intended to compete with, or substitute for the official vote. Please participate in both votes if you have the time, but BE SURE to vote in the official one if you care about the outcome of PEP-308. See the explanations in my posting to comp.lang.python two days ago for more information about the reasons for this supplemental vote on PEP-308 ("ANNOUNCE: Complementary VOTE re: PEP 308 Ternary Proposal", Sun, 02 Mar 2003 17:44:33 -0600). NOMINATIONS The two-day nomination period for additional syntax proposals has now ENDED. No additional nominations were received, so the ballot is as follows: BALLOT ---------- XX NO TERNARY XX t if C else f XX if C then t else f XX (if C: t else: f) XX if C: t else: f XX C ? t : f XX C ? t ! f XX cond(C, t, f) XX C ?? t || f XX C then t else f XX t when C else f XX C ? t else f XX C -> t else f XX C -> (t, f) XX [t if C else f] XX ifelse C: t else f XX select C: t else f XX when C: t else f XX case C: t else f XX <if C then t else f> XX C and t else f ---------- HOW TO VOTE Voting is a simple matter of RANKING the alternatives of interest by replacing the 'XX' that precedes each option with a 2-digit number. For example, you would use '01' for your FAVOURITE (highest-ranked) option, and greater numbers (02, 03,...) for lower-ranked alternatives. You may RE-ORDER the options on the ballot. It is often easier when there are many options to reorder them manually from best to worst, and then assign rankings. Note though, that you must STILL assign a rank number to each option, since it is always the NUMBER that determines the rank, not the ordering. You may assign the SAME RANK to multiple options if you consider them to be equally good/bad. Doing this is equivalent to abstaining from participation in any decision between these equally-ranked alternatives. To simplify voting, you may TRUNCATE your ballot by leaving certain options UNRANKED (for any options you consider to be so bad and unwinnable as to not be worth considering). If you wish to do this, either: a) leave 'XX' in front of the unwanted option(s) in your submitted ballot, rather than replacing it with a rank number, or b) delete the line(s) of the ballot that contain the unwanted options. You can also use a combination of both methods. In either case, these truncated options will be interpreted the same as if they had been ranked EQUALLY, and LOWER than all explicitly ranked alternatives. While truncation and equal rankings provide convenience, ranking many options (even those you dislike) is a good idea. See the STRATEGY TIPS section (below) for reasons why. Note that the status quo option of "NO TERNARY" simply appears as one of the available options, and every other proposed syntax appears as a separate option on the ballot. By placing "NO TERNARY" somewhere within the middle of your ranking, you can express the desire to have a ternary operator added to Python only if certain forms of syntax are used, and reject alternatives that you dislike (while still expressing preferences among these bad alternatives, in case one or more of them proves to be winnable). The status quo option can of course also be ranked first or last, if you feel either that (a) no ternary is acceptable in any form, or alternately, (b) should be added to the language at any cost. A sample completed ballot might look like: ---------- 02 (if C: t else: f) 01 t if C else f 02 NO TERNARY XX if C then t else f 03 if C: t else: f ---------- Here, the voter's favourite option is "t if C else f". The 4th option is unranked, and could have instead been deleted to indicate the same thing. Surrounding lines of hyphens marking the beginning and end of the ballot are appreciated for clarity, but not required. SUBMITTING YOUR BALLOT You may vote by submitting your email ballot to: ------------------ pepvote(a)canada.com ------------------ Your final vote must be received within 96 HOURS (4 days, approx. Wed-Sat) of the time this message first appears on comp.lang.python and/or comp.lang.python.announce for it to be counted in the final result. A CONFIRMATION message will be returned for each ballot that is received, identifying any problems. Unconfirmed ballots will not appear in the results, so if you don't receive a reply within a few hours, you may wish to send your ballot again (I'm confirming votes manually, so the response will not be immediate). If you decide to CHANGE YOUR VOTE, just send a revised ballot containing your new preferences. The last confirmed ballot for each email address will be the one that appears in the final results. RESULTS Results will be published on Sunday, March 9th, but NOT before the voting period of the "official" vote has ended (Noon, EST). Published results will be sent to comp.lang.python and comp.lang.python.announce. Results will include (among other things) a list containing each voter's NAME, EMAIL ADDRESS (munged), and COMPLETED BALLOT to allow for independent verification. Therefore, if you do not want any or all of this information about you made public, DO NOT VOTE! Please refer to the previous message announcing this vote for details about what types of information will appear in the results. STRATEGY TIPS You may be unfamiliar with CONDORCET'S METHOD, the system of voting used here (unless you happen to be a member of the Debian Project :-). Although completing a ranked ballot is technically very easy, if you wish to know how to maximise the chances of getting the outcome you want, you should read following information before completing your ballot: ***** 1. Condorcet's method of counting ranked ballots is very different from other systems (STV/AV/IRV, Borda, etc.) that also use a ranked ballot. Therefore, it is a bad idea to attempt to vote strategically based on what you know (or think you know) about how those systems work. The best strategies for one method of voting will usually fail very badly when applied in another, even if the form of the ballot is similar. 2. You should NOT assume that ranking any UNACCEPTABLE options will harm the chances of electing your PREFERRED option(s). Condorcet's method is a system of pairwise voting, where the overall result is determined by finding the majority winners of a series of two-way races between every possible pair of alternatives. Not ranking (truncating) some options, or assigning the same rank to a group of options is therefore equivalent to ABSTAINING from participation in any decision between those equally-ranked alternatives. Therefore, if the final choice in the election is between two options, both of which you dislike -- but not EQUALLY -- you may later regret not having participated in that decision. 3. You should also NOT vote for what you believe to be an acceptable, popular choice (the "lesser evil" compromise) ahead of your true favourite(s), in the belief that this will somehow help to prevent the election of a popular, disliked alternative (the "greater evil"). This type of strategy is often necessary in plurality ("first-past-the-post") voting, but is ineffective and unnecessary with Condorcet's method. Condorcet's method finds the best compromise automatically, if one is needed, so doing this will simply harm the chances of electing your true favourite. See http://www.electionmethods.org/Condorcet.htm for a detailed explanation of this. ******************************************************* With CONDORCET'S METHOD, you will maximise the power and effectiveness of your ballot by providing a COMPLETE and SINCERE expression of your true preferences. You should only rank options equally if you genuinely consider them to be equally good (or bad). ******************************************************* -- Norman Petry

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ANNOUNCE: MyHDL 0.1
by Jan Decaluwe 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

I am happy to announce the initial public release of MyHDL, a Python package for using Python as a hardware description language. This may be of interest to: - Pythoneers interested in applications of Python generators - hardware designers interested in the wonders of Python You can find it at http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html. Release notes: MyHDL 0.1 --------- MyHDL is a Python package for using Python as a hardware description language. Popular hardware description languages, like Verilog and VHDL, are compiled languages. MyHDL with Python can be viewed as a "scripting language" counterpart of such languages. However, Python is more accurately described as a very high level language (VHLL). MyHDL users have access to the amazing power and elegance of Python for their modeling work. The key idea behind MyHDL is to use Python generators to model the concurrency required in hardware descriptions. As generators are a recent Python feature, MyHDL requires Python 2.2.2 or higher. MyHDL 0.1 is the initial public release of the package. It can be used to experiment with high level modeling, and with verification techniques such as unit testing. But the primary goal is to generate interest and to solicit feedback. In a future release, MyHDL will hopefully be coupled to hardware simulators for languages such as Verilog and VHDL. That would turn Python into a powerful hardware verification language. -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium mailto:jan@jandecaluwe.com http://jandecaluwe.com

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Python-announce-list March 2003