Mailman 3 August 2004 - Python-announce-list

python-dev Summary for 2004-07-16 through 2004-07-31
by Brett C. Aug. 8, 2004

Aug. 8, 2004

python-dev Summary for 2004-07-16 through 2004-07-31 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from July 16, 2004 through July 31, 2004. It is intended to inform the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list. To comment on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email python-list(a)python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on something. And if all of this really interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_! This is the forty-fifth summary written by Brett Cannon (will be going insane when doing the next summary thanks to decorators). To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have the time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch follow-ups posted there. All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ . Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html . Any unfamiliar punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output. Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_. .. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking up any documentation on new code; otherwise use the current documentation as found at http://docs.python.org/ . PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at http://www.python.org/peps/ . To view files in the Python CVS online, go to http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ . Reported bugs and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page. The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that holds the intellectual property for Python. It also tries to forward the development and use of Python. But the PSF_ cannot do this without donations. You can make a donation at http://python.org/psf/donations.html . Every penny helps so even a small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps. .. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/ .. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470 .. _python-dev mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev .. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python .. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/ .. _reST: .. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .. _PSF: .. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/ .. contents:: .. _last summary: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-07-16_2004-07-31.html .. _original text file: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-07-16_2004-07-31.ht ===================== Summary Announcements ===================== Python 2.4a2 is out the door. The usual request for people to run the regression test suite stands. If you have been following the whole decorator syntax bugaboo, realize that I won't summarize it until the next summary (discussion started August 1). But for those of you not in the know, Guido has tentatively accepted the proposed '@decorator' syntax for decorators. This has led to an **immense** explosion in discussion python-dev (over 700 emails already for the next summary and there is still another week to go) on the subject. Basically Guido has said that the community can come up with one other syntax that they like and present that to Guido (already proposed syntaxes are pretty much out of the running for the reasons they were shot down the first time). *Much* more on this subject in the next summary. ======== Summary ======== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Makin' bdist_wininst purty and nicer for them non-English speaking folks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Heller asked if some better images for Distutil's bdist_wininst could be used. Some existing images were discussed, but no specific resolution was mentioned in the thread. Walter Dörwald brought up the point that if this was all being worked on he wouldn't mind having Unicode support for things such as author name and such. Thomas and Walter worked on it and that has gone in. Contributing threads: - `bdist_wininst <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046268.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assigning to None a no-no, but still okay for booleans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assigning to None is now a SyntaxError instead of a SyntaxWarning. Assignment to True and False, though, is still allowed and probably will not be restricted until Python 3.0 (which will probably have to wait, if Guido's OSCON slides are to be believed, until he retires). The idea of restricting assignment, though, was brought up by Raymond Hettinger. Michael Hudson, though, pointed out it would be difficult and possibly require a special opcode to handle it. Contributing threads: - `Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Python compile.c, <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046271.html>`__ - `None as constant. Still SyntaxWarning <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046323.html>`__ ----------------------------------------------------------------- 'as' does not get to be treated with kiddie gloves ----------------------------------------------------------------- Philip Eby asked if 'as' was going to become a keyword. Guido said not now, but in Python 3.0 it will be. Contributing threads: - `"as" to be a keyword? <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046304.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully you didn't love FCNTL like a child... ------------------------------------------------------------- ... since if you did that kid was a lazy punk that did nothing but cause trouble for Windows users. That's why it got kicked out of the house to never come back. Contributing threads: - `Kill FCNTL.py <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046322.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How to get Python to compile with Microsoft's free compiler that should just come with the OS standard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Download the free .NET compiler 2. Download the Windows SDK (at http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/sdkupdate/ with only IE) 3. Download Garth's tools to generate a Makefile from the .sln files (at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042595.html ) 4. Compile 5. Realize you should be using an OS that doesn't make you go through this many hoops just to have a compiler for your platform Contributing threads: - `Non-Visual Studio builds on Windows XP? <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046324.html>`__ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Peters, whitespace Czar, will break your legs if you mess up the pristine whitespace in CVS --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Peters ran Tools/Scripts/reindent.py over the entire CVS tree and fixed it up. This means you had better not mess up and check in using anything but 4-space indents with no tabs! Contributing threads: - `Fun with whitespace <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046331.html>`__ ----------------------------------------------------------- Thread safety == won't blow up in your face ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul Moore pointed out that the documentation for deques in the collections module stated they were thread-safe. It was clarified that the statement meant that internal state would not be corrupted if multiple threads accessed the same object; no guarantee that it isn't accessed in some order or anything. Basically the idea of thread-safety for C code is that it won't lead to the interpreter exploding, nothing more. And you don't even get that guarantee with Python code. Contributing threads: - `Thread safety of deques <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046343.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LC_NUMERIC PEP gets a pristine, new PEP number ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Even though the code had already been put into the core, the PEP about LC_NUMERIC and being locale-independent never got a PEP number. Well, now it has one: `PEP 331`_. .. _PEP 331: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0331.html Contributing threads: - `PEP 331: Locale-Independent Float/String Conversions <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046358.html>`__ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Edward Loper becomes one of us rowdy developers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- And he has already made his initial contribution by helping to rework doctest. Contributing threads: - `Would like to add Edward Loper as a Python developer <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046395.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Any misbehaving modules during initialization from import now get the boot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Fulton wanted a better way to detect when an import failed thanks to another module being directly imported (e.g., module A imports B which raised TypeError from some initialization code from importing; importing would leave A and B in a shoddy state in sys.modules along with raising TypeError in the import from A instead of raising ImportError). While the latter still occurs, modules are not left in sys.modules in a broken state from exceptions being raised during initialization thanks to Guido and Tim Peters. There was a discussion on circular imports and how to handle those for proper rollback. Two suggestions were taking a snapshot of sys.modules and then restoring with that if something bad happens, and putting in placeholder modules in sys.modules. But this all gets sticky from side-effects that modules can do outside of themselves before they finish importing everyone else. If, for instance, module A, as a side-effect of importation, injected a custom version of len into module B that would make the state of B different than from before the failed attempt to import module A. Now, if module A did this before doing all of its imports it could pull of the len injection but still fail from a bad import. That is not good. Basically the best solution is to not do that; there is a reason you should do all of your global imports as the first thing in a module. Contributing threads: - `Fix import errors to have data <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046424.html>`__ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stuff about Unicode, state, and how to handle when a stream terminated early; all CJK to me ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walter Dörwald noticed that codecs.StreamReader.read() would read a few more bytes when it discovered an error. That's bad since there might not be more bytes and continuing once an error has been found is just not right. So he wanted to fix that problem. Unfortunately he and MA Lemburg started to talk and I just couldn't follow everything about stateful and stateless decoders/encoders and the issues; I'm American so Unicode just doesn't fit in my brain well. So if you want to know what conclusions they reached you are going to read the thread on your own. Contributing threads: - `Decoding incomplete unicode <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046450.html>`__ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Use the docs to know what the public API is, people ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fernando Perez got bit by having something removed from the 'keyword' module that was not part of the documented API. Turns out that running 'help' on the module listed the function in question and so he just went ahead an used it. That's not the right way to go about finding the public API of stdlib code. Always follow the documentation. If it is not listed there don't expect it to be there in the next version. While we try not to yank stuff out needlessly and will tweak things to be nice on occasion, we make no guarantees on stuff not listed in the API. The next best thing is what is listed in __all__ for a module. Since that is explicitly listed that usually can be considered part of the API. And lastly, anything starting with an underscore is off limits in terms of promises of keeping it around. Luckily Skip Montanaro applied a patch for pydoc to have it only list stuff in modules as specified by __all__, so it's a little safer out there. But the actual documentation is still king. Contributing threads: - `Rationale behind removing kwdict from keyword.py? <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046465.html>`__ ------------------------------------------------------- Linking against static builds on Windows ------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Heller pointed out that one couldn't dynamically link against a statically built Python interpreter DLL. He and Martin v. Löwis discussed various ways to try to get this to work, but it doesn't appear they came up with one. Contributing threads: - `Static builds on Windows <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046499.html>`__

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ANNOUNCE: Gnome-Python 2.0.3
by Johan Dahlin Aug. 7, 2004

Aug. 7, 2004

Gnome-Python 2.0.3 is now available at: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-python/2.0/ Gnome-Python provides bindings for the Gnome 2.x development platform libraries. It builds on top of PyGTK, and includes bindings for the following GNOME libraries: * the GConf configuration database * the Bonobo component system * the Gnome-VFS file access library * support for writing panel applets and Nautilus views * the GtkHTML2 widget. * the Gnome-Print print libraries. Gnome-Python requires PyGTK, PyORBit, Python >= 2.2 and the Gnome 2.x development platform to build. PyGtk, Python and Gnome is usually included in your distribution, if not: PyGTK can be found on http://www.pygtk.org/ Python can be found on http://www.python.org Gnome libraries can be found on http://www.gnome.org This release was only possible because of all hard work made by Gustavo Carneiro. Changes since 2.0.2: * Bugfixes - Segfault when importing bonobo modules in emdedded python (Johan, Xavier) - Warning when import gnome module in emdedded python (Xavier) - Fix bonobo.event_source_client_add_listener name and argument parsing (Gustavo) - Accept None for link_id parameter of gnome.help_display (Gustavo) - Segfault in gnome.IconList.get_selection (Scott Tsai) - Fixes for some gnome.vfs_mime_* functions (Scott Tsai) - Fix crash in bonobo.activation.active_server_register (Gustavo) Questions about Gnome-Python can be directed to the PyGTK list: http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk Bug reports should be filed at the Gnome bug tracker: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gnome-python -- Johan Dahlin <johan(a)gnome.org>

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Freeze - Python standalones
by oriana.falco＠thalesesec.com Aug. 6, 2004

Aug. 6, 2004

Hi! I wrote a Python application that I wish to convert to standalone using Freeze, the problem is that when I try to build the Python source code in Visual C++ I get a prompt asking me for a password. I understand this code is protected but, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to open the PCBuild\pcbuild.dsw project to build the source code without making any changes. Right? Please help, I need to build this source code in order to use the Freeze application and I can't seem to do it...!!! Thanks in advance, Oriana

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BayPIGgies: August 12, 7:30pm
by Aahz Aug. 6, 2004

Aug. 6, 2004

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs August 12 at 7:30pm. It will feature general discussion of programming and debugging GUI applications (Qt, Tkinter, wxPython, etc). BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California. For more information and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/ Before the meeting, some people meet at 6pm for dinner in downtown Palo Alto. Ducky Sherwood is handling that; please send RSVPs to ducky(a)osafoundation.org Discussion of dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list. Advance notice: The September 9 meeting agenda has not been set. Please send e-mail to baypiggies(a)baypiggies.net if you want to make a presentation. -- Aahz (aahz(a)pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it." --reddy(a)lion.austin.ibm.com

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Prothon is switching to the .NET platform
by Mark Hahn Aug. 6, 2004

Aug. 6, 2004

Last week at OSCON, Jim Hugunin showed results from his port of Python to the .NET platform called IronPython. He was able to run Python on the .NET CLR (common language runtime) at speeds rivaling and even surpassing that of the native Python interpreter. This contradicts the prevailing wisdom that .Net is not good for running dynamic languages such as Python and Prothon. This presented an opportunity for Prothon that was too good to pass up. By following in IronPython's footsteps, Prothon will not only be able to run on a stable established interpreter, the CLR, but Prothon will have immediate access to the .NET runtime library of unmatched size. Prothon's previous design plans would not have worked with Python's runtime library and the establisment of its own library would have taken some time. Thanks to the Novell Mono project, which is now at the 1.0 stage, IronPython and Prothon will run on Linux also. Mono is an open-source port of the .NET framework to Linux. The feature set of Prothon will be changed somewhat. Prothon will still be prototype-based. Features relating directly to the interpreter will change of course. Everything in the VanPy talk at the Prothon website (http://prothon.org) in the "engine" section will no longer be available as a feature. The lightweight threads will not be possible, but real co-routines will still be available. The string type will have Unicode encoded as UTF-16 instead of raw 24-bit characters. I will put up a page of changes on the wiki when I know more. Mark Hahn ---- Prothon is a new dynamic object-oriented language that improves upon the excellent language Python. While not compatible with Python, Prothon is close enough for Python code to be easily ported to Prothon. See http://prothon.org.

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RELEASED Python 2.4, alpha 2
by Anthony Baxter Aug. 5, 2004

Aug. 5, 2004

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm happy to announce the second alpha of Python 2.4. Python 2.4a2 is an alpha release. We'd greatly appreciate it if you could download it, kick the tires and let us know of any problems you find, but it is not suitable for production usage. ~ http://www.python.org/2.4 In this release we have new syntax for function decorators, a fix for failing imports so that they don't leave a broken module in sys.modules, a host of updated modules in the standard library (including optparse and doctest) and a large number of other bug fixes and improvements. See either the highlights, the What's New in Python 2.4, or the detailed NEWS file -- all available from the Python 2.4 webpage. There will probably be one more alpha in a few weeks before the first beta a few weeks after that. Please log any problems you have with this release in the SourceForge bug tracker (noting that you're using 2.4a2): ~ http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470 Enjoy the new release, Anthony Anthony Baxter anthony(a)python.org Python Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBEjHFDt3F8mpFyBYRAhgXAKCful63a7kAUcHnxFzCZSzq0bmZ7QCfZIqy t/PqaaLcdRL6IVUKPAWiytA= =pQNU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PyProtocols 0.9.3 Final
by Phillip J. Eby Aug. 5, 2004

Aug. 5, 2004

As there were no further bugs reported for PyProtocols 0.9.3rc2, PyProtocols 0.9.3 final is now available for download. There are no practical changes from rc2, except for file and documentation revision numbers and dates. What is PyProtocols? -------------------- PyProtocols is an extended implementation of PEP 246, adding a new "declaration API" that lets you easily define your own interfaces and adapters, and declare what adapters should be used to adapt what types, objects, or interfaces. Using PyProtocols, you can easily make flexible frameworks that you or other developers can extend without needing to modify the base framework. PyProtocols interfaces can interoperate with those of Twisted and Zope, or can be used entirely standalone. PyProtocols may be used, modified, and distributed under the same terms and conditions as Python or Zope. What's new in version 0.9.3? (Highlights) -------------------------------------------- * Adapter factories can now accept just one argument, the way Twisted and Zope adapters do. * Interface and protocol objects can be called, as a shortcut for 'adapt()' (as Zope and Twisted interfaces do) * You can now more easily install PyProtocols without a C compiler, using the '--without-speedups' option to 'setup.py' (see the README.txt file for details.) * Numerous other bug fixes and enhancements - see CHANGES.txt for details. IMPORTANT: If you are upgrading from a previous version of PyProtocols, please read UPGRADING.txt for important information. Certain rarely-used features have been deprecated, and others have changed slightly. Most users should not experience any problems (except perhaps for DeprecationWarnings), but please be sure to verify this before you upgrade any production code from 0.9.2 to 0.9.3. PyProtocols Resources --------------------- * Upgrading to PyProtocols 0.9.3 (and a look ahead to 1.0) http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_api/UPGRADING.txt.html * Detailed Changes for all releases: http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_api/CHANGES.txt.html * Release notes, installation instructions, and browsable API docs: http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_api/ * Source and Binary Releases: http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ * Reference Manual (HTML): http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref/module-protocols.html * Reference Manual (PDF): http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref.pdf * Browsable CVS Repository: http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PyProtocols/

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ANN: pynauty 0.1 - iso/automorphism for graphs
by Peter Dobcsanyi Aug. 4, 2004

Aug. 4, 2004

Pynauty is a Python extension module to Brendan McKay's Nauty C procedures. The module provides Python classes to represent graphs and functions for isomorphism testing and computing automorphism groups of graphs. The graphs can be undirected or directed. They can contain loops but no multiple edges. There is always a vertex-coloring associated with them. Ordinary, that is not vertex-colored, graphs can be represented with all vertices having the same color. For download, documentation, installation instructions please visit: http://designtheory.org/software/pynauty/ -- , Peter Dobcsanyi

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pydesign 0.4 - combinatorial/statistical design computing
by Peter Dobcsanyi Aug. 4, 2004

Aug. 4, 2004

The pydesign package is a collection of Python modules and applications to provide a computational framework for working with combinatorial and statistical designs. For download, documentation, installation instructions please visit: http://designtheory.org/software/pydesign/ -- , Peter Dobcsanyi

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ANN: Dive Into Python published
by Mark Pilgrim Aug. 4, 2004

Aug. 4, 2004

I am pleased to announce that my Python book "Dive Into Python" is now available on paper, published by Apress and weighing in at 432 pages. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590593561/ref%3Dnosim/diveintomark2… More information, and a complete online edition, is available at <http://diveintopython.org/>. Without Apress' financial support, this book would have languished half-written and self-published, full of typos and technical mistakes. Even if you have read the online edition, please consider buying a copy. ===== obligatory back cover blurb follows ===== This is a practical book aimed at busy developers. Every chapter takes a real piece of code and turns it inside out until you can't help but understand it. If there is background information you need to know, you'll learn it along the way. But you won't find long-winded treatises on the aesthetics of API design or the history of computer science. I don't have time for that, and neither do you. And yet, as practical as this book is, there is a touch of passion in it. I fell in love with Python the day I found it. Did I fall in love because of some abstract sense of elegance or style? No, I fell in love because it works and doesn't get in my way. The standard libraries are robust and easy to use. The syntax is not picky or arcane. Developing in Python is like writing pseudo-code that works. After a decade of experience with dogmatic languages, Python is a breath of fresh air. This book covers the basics of Python datatypes, from lists to dictionaries to tuples and beyond. You'll learn about the power of introspection; Python's powerful object model; regular expressions; HTML and XML processing; web services; unit testing; performance tuning; and the newest language features added in Python 2.3: iterators and generators. I hope this book makes you fall in love with Python. But if not, that's okay. You'll learn plenty anyway, and my passion can be enough for both of us. -- Mark Pilgrim

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