Re: [Python-checkins] r46472 - python/trunk/PCbuild8 python/trunk/PCbuild8/Uninstal.wse python/trunk/PCbuild8/_bsddb.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_ctypes.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_ctypes_test.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_elementtree.vcproj pytho
Hi there. Well, I was sort of hoping that it would "maintain itself" in an open source manner, but if it needs an official maintainter, we can do that. Particularly, we are interested in input from the community on how better to set up the projects in VS to perform the profile-guilded optimization step with minimal user input. Our current approach relies on a file called pythoncore_pgo_link.txt which needs to be manually updated when the project changes significantly. Martin, you have been doing work on getting python to be officially supported with VC 8. I remember that we discussed this at the pycon sprint. My VC8 build of 2.5 indeed did crash in the regression suite. I have some ideas on how to fix the C runtime problem. I will try some things locally and then bounce them off you and Tim. Cheers, Kristjan p.s. do you think I ought to subscribe to python-checkins? -----Original Message----- From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.peters@gmail.com] Sent: 31. maí 2006 01:51 To: Martin v. Löwis; Kristján V. Jónsson Cc: kristjan.jonsson Subject: Re: [Python-checkins] r46472 - python/trunk/PCbuild8 python/trunk/PCbuild8/Uninstal.wse python/trunk/PCbuild8/_bsddb.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_ctypes.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_ctypes_test.vcproj python/trunk/PCbuild8/_elementtree.vcproj pytho [kristjan.jonsson] |>> Add a PCBuild8 build directory for building with Visual Studio .NET
2005. Contains a special project to perform profile guided optimizations on the pythoncore.dll, by instrumenting and running pybench.py
[Martin v. Löwis]
Who is going to maintain that?
I'm copying Kristján directly since I doubt he's still following the python-checkins list actively enough to notice that replies "to him" actually just go to python-checkins. Kristján is actively using that directory in his business, so he's maintaining it for now. At the NFS sprint he demonstrated significant speedups via exploiting profile-guided optimization, so it should of substantial interest over time. If everyone loses interest, fine, then it becomes like PC/VC6/ and RISCOS/ and ... in the meantime, it doesn't get in the way of anything I ever do <0.5 wink>.
[Kristján V. Jónsson, on PCbuild8/]
Well, I was sort of hoping that it would "maintain itself" in an open source manner,
It may or may not -- depends on user interest. So far you appear to be the only one playing in this directory, which may or may not change (I expect it will, but can't know that).
but if it needs an official maintainter, we can do that.
It should have a maintainer at least at the start. That can't, e.g., be me, since I don't have .NET 2005 and have no current plan to acquire it. You're elected :-)
Particularly, we are interested in input from the community on how better to set up the projects in VS to perform the profile-guilded optimization step with minimal user input. Our current approach relies on a file called pythoncore_pgo_link.txt which needs to be manually updated when the project changes significantly.
Starting a discussion on comp.lang.python should find people interested in working on that.
Martin, you have been doing work on getting python to be officially supported with VC 8. I remember that we discussed this at the pycon sprint. My VC8 build of 2.5 indeed did crash in the regression suite. I have some ideas on how to fix the C runtime problem. I will try some things locally and then bounce them off you and Tim.
The python-dev mailing list is appropriate for that (mailing lists generally work better than private email for hammering out tech problems -- more eyeballs, more aggregate knowledge and "spare time" to tap).
... p.s. do you think I ought to subscribe to python-checkins?
Everyone at the Iceland sprint was requested to do so in one of the messages to the NFS list before the sprint. So long as you continue making checkins, yes, you should stay subscribed to python-checkins (and python-dev), because that's where replies to checkin messages end up.
Zitat von "Kristján V. Jónsson" <kristjan@ccpgames.com>:
Well, I was sort of hoping that it would "maintain itself" in an open source manner, but if it needs an official maintainter, we can do that.
That could happen. Of course, we would still need somebody to decide whether a certain contributed patch should be applied to that directory or not.
Particularly, we are interested in input from the community on how better to set up the projects in VS to perform the profile-guilded optimization step with minimal user input. Our current approach relies on a file called pythoncore_pgo_link.txt which needs to be manually updated when the project changes significantly.
I doubt you get much feedback from the community on that detail; you would probably need to actively collect feedback.
Martin, you have been doing work on getting python to be officially supported with VC 8. I remember that we discussed this at the pycon sprint. My VC8 build of 2.5 indeed did crash in the regression suite. I have some ideas on how to fix the C runtime problem. I will try some things locally and then bounce them off you and Tim.
There was the signal problem which got resolved (even before the sprint IIRC); I haven't done anything on VC8 runtime errors since. For example, it still "should" crash when you are passing an unsupported fopen() mode.
p.s. do you think I ought to subscribe to python-checkins?
No. I personally didn't for quite a long time. I'll just remember to CC you the next time. Regards, Martin
On 5/31/06, martin@v.loewis.de <martin@v.loewis.de> wrote:
Zitat von "Kristján V. Jónsson" <kristjan@ccpgames.com>:
p.s. do you think I ought to subscribe to python-checkins?
No. I personally didn't for quite a long time. I'll just remember to CC you the next time.
I wish you would subscribe. I wish everyone with checkin privs would subscribe, even if they don't review the checkins it would be nice if they at least read responses to their own checkins. There seem to be so many exceptions in dealing with the core, it's hard to keep them all straight. Things like: which module needs to be kept compatible with which version, which developers don't read python-checkins, which modules are externally maintained and should get patches instead of commits, who works on which modules, which buildbots are expected to fail and for what reason, which tests leak inconsistently, who has outstanding actions for 2.5, etc. Ok, most of those are just things I need to remember. I guess that's an indication I should be doing a lot less work. n PS. BTW, I don't do any work on the language as part of my day job. Except this week I did suggest that 2 internal patches be submitted. PPS. I blame my whining on lack of sleep. :-)
On 5/31/06, Neal Norwitz <nnorwitz@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/31/06, martin@v.loewis.de <martin@v.loewis.de> wrote:
Zitat von "Kristján V. Jónsson" <kristjan@ccpgames.com>:
p.s. do you think I ought to subscribe to python-checkins?
No. I personally didn't for quite a long time. I'll just remember to CC you the next time.
I wish you would subscribe. I wish everyone with checkin privs would subscribe, even if they don't review the checkins it would be nice if they at least read responses to their own checkins.
There seem to be so many exceptions in dealing with the core, it's hard to keep them all straight. Things like: which module needs to be kept compatible with which version, which developers don't read python-checkins, which modules are externally maintained and should get patches instead of commits, who works on which modules, which buildbots are expected to fail and for what reason, which tests leak inconsistently, who has outstanding actions for 2.5, etc.
Ok, most of those are just things I need to remember. I guess that's an indication I should be doing a lot less work.
=) Well, the compatibility and what modules are maintained externally are both PEPs at this point (the externally maintained PEP is 360 and has not been pushed to the site yet). So at least for those you just need to remember to read something. =) As for expected Buildbot failures, it might be nice to have something somewhere written down about that since I know I don't remember those details either. -Brett n
PS. BTW, I don't do any work on the language as part of my day job. Except this week I did suggest that 2 internal patches be submitted.
PPS. I blame my whining on lack of sleep. :-) _______________________________________________ Python-checkins mailing list Python-checkins@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-checkins
On 6/1/06, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
=) Well, the compatibility and what modules are maintained externally are both PEPs at this point (the externally maintained PEP is 360 and has not been pushed to the site yet). So at least for those you just need to remember to read something. =)
I know there's a smiley there, but that's still part of my point. For newcomers it's very difficult to start because the learning curve is so large and keeps increasing. There are all these indirections. The more we can simplify the process and make it easier to contribute the more likely it will be for people to contribute. It's the same thing with making the bug/patch process easier and updating the web/doc. The easier it is to contribute, the more likely we are to get contributions.
As for expected Buildbot failures, it might be nice to have something somewhere written down about that since I know I don't remember those details either.
There is: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BuildBot Except other than Tim making a section for Windows at one point, I'm not sure anyone else has ever modified or viewed the page. Ok, I just looked, Anthony touched it a few times too. :-) n
participants (5)
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Brett Cannon -
Kristján V. Jónsson -
martin＠v.loewis.de -
Neal Norwitz -
Tim Peters