On Nov 3, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:



On Nov 3, 2018, at 3:19 PM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:



On Nov 3, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou <antoine@python.org> wrote:


Le 03/11/2018 à 20:15, Donald Stufft a écrit :

I’m the other way. I basically don’t participate in python-dev or python-ideas anymore because of the issues mailing lists have.

Just a question: which tool do you use to participate in distutils-sig
discussions, then?


It’s the only mailing list (well besides this one, but this one only because it’s low traffic enough normally I didn’t filter it out into a folder to ignore) I still actively participate in. Even there I’ve been consciously pushing more of my own traffic to GitHub, or avoiding doing things that would require discussion on distutils-sig instead working on things that I could discuss entirely on GitHub.

My experience with the Governance discussion lead me to post https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/VXXPZCVRLH27N46TR3P6IEOKIA47POCM/ last night, so I’m pulling myself generally out of distutils-sig as well.



Oh yea, and I forgot to mention that I’ve been trying to advocate for pulling the packaging tools out of the PEP process and into our own process, ideally based on GitHub or Discourse or anything with modern UI affordances. That’s not entirely due to the pain of mailing lists, but that’s part of it.



One last bit! 

I don’t mean to suggest that my participation is make or break for these lists. If I was the only one who felt this way, then I think it would be fair to say that I’m in the minority and while we want to encourage everyone, we can’t please everyone. I was merely trying to express that the choice isn’t move from mailing list to discourse and maybe exclude some people, or stay on mailing lists and exclude nobody. Either choice is going to be excluding some people.