I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
--David
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:24 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
--David You mean like OpenStack who also uses this? And Opscode, Eucalyptus, and others?
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jesse Noller wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:24 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
--David You mean like OpenStack who also uses this? And Opscode, Eucalyptus, and others?
See also: Google's: https://developers.google.com/open-source/cla/individual
So, multiple corporations who pay their lawyers a *lot* more than we pay ours, backing large open source projects have moved to authentication theater. I'm pretty happy we have the option now, since not offering electronic CLAs has been a complaint for the past 5+ years.
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 10:29:23 -0500, Jesse Noller <jnoller@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:24 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
--David
You mean like OpenStack who also uses this? And Opscode, Eucalyptus, and others?
Sure, it's fine to be using it, if the legal community for some reason wants it. And very I'm grateful that the system was put in place.
But I won't change my opinion that it is authentication theater, and the existence of that theater component makes me sad. And apparently I can be sad not just for us, but for those other organizations that indeed I was not aware were using it.
--David
Great news to finally have this available! On Mar 4, 2013 7:30 AM, "Jesse Noller" <jnoller@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:24 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
--David You mean like OpenStack who also uses this? And Opscode, Eucalyptus, and others?
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I don't know what this is talking about. Is there an announcement somewhere I missed? Or has the PSF declared announcements to be old-fashionable and despicable?
Regards
Antoine.
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I don't know what this is talking about. Is there an announcement somewhere I missed? Or has the PSF declared announcements to be old-fashionable and despicable?
Regards
Antoine. Brian Curtin was rolling out the announcement(s) - the blog post went live automatically before he could wake up in chicago time and send out the email announcements:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/03/introducing-electronic-contributor.html
So no, no one being evil (but you can assume that). Auto-post times in blogger just beating people.
My apologies for sounding a sour note, by the way, I think I was unduly influenced by my previous (very poor, from a UI perspective) experience with a system like this, and had a knee-jerk reaction.
I think it is great that this system has been put in place, and my thanks to all involved.
--David
My apologies for sounding a sour note, by the way, I think I was unduly influenced by my previous (very poor, from a UI perspective) experience with a system like this, and had a knee-jerk reaction.
I think it is great that this system has been put in place, and my thanks to all involved.
It is certainly great indeed (I say that without having seen the UI, though).
Regards
Antoine.
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
My apologies for sounding a sour note, by the way, I think I was unduly influenced by my previous (very poor, from a UI perspective) experience with a system like this, and had a knee-jerk reaction.
I think it is great that this system has been put in place, and my thanks to all involved.
It is certainly great indeed (I say that without having seen the UI, though).
Regards
Antoine. it's an iframe and some javascript wizardry widgeting. Nothing to write home to mom about.
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 10:58:57 -0500, Jesse Noller <jnoller@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
My apologies for sounding a sour note, by the way, I think I was unduly influenced by my previous (very poor, from a UI perspective) experience with a system like this, and had a knee-jerk reaction.
I think it is great that this system has been put in place, and my thanks to all involved.
It is certainly great indeed (I say that without having seen the UI, though).
it's an iframe and some javascript wizardry widgeting. Nothing to write home to mom about.
It can probably stand some tweaks(*), but it is *much* better than the one I encountered before.
--David
(*) Not sure where to report this, so: I was confused by the fact that I'd filled in the blanks, but clicking on the 'esign' button did nothing except post a message that I needed to fill in all the required fields...which I had already done. Turns out I needed to scroll the sub-window down in order to see the additional button to click for signing the document. The confusion could be cleared up by either having the entire document show without scrolling, or by changing the final button label from 'esign' to 'submit' (or doing both).
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 11:08 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 10:58:57 -0500, Jesse Noller <jnoller@gmail.com (mailto:jnoller@gmail.com)> wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
My apologies for sounding a sour note, by the way, I think I was unduly influenced by my previous (very poor, from a UI perspective) experience with a system like this, and had a knee-jerk reaction.
I think it is great that this system has been put in place, and my thanks to all involved.
It is certainly great indeed (I say that without having seen the UI, though).
it's an iframe and some javascript wizardry widgeting. Nothing to write home to mom about.
It can probably stand some tweaks(*), but it is *much* better than the one I encountered before.
--David
(*) Not sure where to report this, so: I was confused by the fact that I'd filled in the blanks, but clicking on the 'esign' button did nothing except post a message that I needed to fill in all the required fields...which I had already done. Turns out I needed to scroll the sub-window down in order to see the additional button to click for signing the document. The confusion could be cleared up by either having the entire document show without scrolling, or by changing the final button label from 'esign' to 'submit' (or doing both).
reported :)
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I don't know what this is talking about. Is there an announcement somewhere I missed? Or has the PSF declared announcements to be old-fashionable and despicable?
Sorry I didn't send the email at the exact same time as the blog posts that I had scheduled. You'll find out what we're talking about in some form or fashion at some point today.
On 04.03.2013 16:24, R. David Murray wrote:
I applaud the foundation for getting an electronic signature method in place.
However, I have to say that to my mind echosign is nothing more than "authentication theater", and I wonder if it is going to make us look more than a bit clueless to the tech community. I'm surprised that a lawyer would consider a "signature" generated from typed text to be useful for anything. If you are are going to accept the typed signature, just accept the typed signature.
I was asked to sign a legal document I cared about that way once and I refused.
At least there's a way to upload a real signature.
The old paper-trail version is still available, if the new form doesn't work out for you.
Whether any version of a signature, other than the wet-signed paper version sent by postal mail actually proves that a agreement was entered, depends a lot on the jurisdictions on both sides of the agreement, e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signature#Enforceability_of_electron...
In our particular case, there's usually a rather long story leading up to someone signing a contrib form, so I don't think we'd ever run into a situation where the above would not be enough to prove the (final) intention of entering an agreement in court. A simple checkbox "I agree" would like be enough and the little extra sugar makes it look smarter :-)
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com
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participants (6)
-
Antoine Pitrou -
Brian Curtin -
Eli Bendersky -
Jesse Noller -
M.-A. Lemburg -
R. David Murray