On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure if it's because I'm reading the lists more, or if he's actually posting more, but I definitely seem to see him more frequently.

No, it's definitely picked up. He went dormant for a while and now he is back.

And almost none of it is positive contribution, it's almost entirely people wasting time trying to humor him. I'm honestly not sure I've ever seen a discussion with him add value to the community.

His core points are typically valid (which is why I assume so many people have tried to help him fix his attitude), but then his solutions are typically over-the-top and he demands things occur instead of suggesting. Basically he's just rude.

Karl Fogel's book, "Producing Open Source Software", has heavily influenced my thinking here ( http://producingoss.com/en/difficult-people.html), but I think we ought to reconsider banning him from the mailing lists that we run.

Python-ideas has a CoC now for a reason. Might be time to enact one for python-dev and the bug tracker.

Alex

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Antoine Pitrou <antoine@python.org>wrote:

...

Hello,

I'm a bit curious, but do people think Anatoly is now behaving more constructively than before?

No.

He does seem to post *less*, otherwise...

...

After all, he's just sent another rant about the "community process" in which the word CLA seems to appear multiple times: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2013-November/130632.html

He also flat-out admits that he is "disrespectful to policies". He views himself as being a rabble-rouser to make sure old ideas get revisited. I say there are nicer ways to make sure old decisions are revisited that don't require being disrespectful and rude.

-Brett

...

Regards

Antoine.

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Hi,

I worked with many and various contributors on the Python projects last 3 years. All contributors made a lot of effort to understand the process (which is complex and not well documented), try to find information by themself (ask find the right place to ask questions like "how can I find information"), produced patches, accepted reviews and updated their patches. I really enjoyed working with them.

Whereas it's really a pain to "work" with Anatoly. It's really a difficult to try to understand what he means. He have to repeat the same things again and again to help him to express his suggestion. I don't remember once when I was happy to see that he understood and don't repeat the same mistakes. He always complains about the CLA, whereas other developers focus on patches, no on the CLA.

I don't like how Anatoly suggests changes. It's always something like "Python sucks" (Python "warts" is Anatoly's idea) whereas other developers are more kind: "xxx can be improved: I suggest to ..." (sometimes with a patch, yeah!).

Seriously, why should I care of Anatoly whereas I can spend my time helping other productive developers who really want to contribute and do produce patches?

I don't care of what Anatoly does outside mailing lists and the bug tracker, but in my opinion, he has a clear negative effect on the mailing lists and the bug tracker and making us loose our time. I do care of Anatoly because people who don't know him and read his messages would have a very bad opinion of Python (Python is full of warts, everything is broken, the CLA is evil, the process sucks, etc.).

He was warned too many times. I see no progress.

Victor

2013/11/29 Antoine Pitrou <antoine@python.org>:

Hello,

I'm a bit curious, but do people think Anatoly is now behaving more constructively than before? He does seem to post *less*, otherwise...

After all, he's just sent another rant about the "community process" in which the word CLA seems to appear multiple times: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2013-November/130632.html

Regards

Antoine.

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