Mailman 3 February 2002 - Python-Dev

Re: [Python-checkins] CVS: python/dist/src/Mac/scripts gensuitemodule.py,1.18,1.19
by Guido van Rossum 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

> The keyword module has an undocumented data object kwlist which is a > list of keywords. Perhaps this should be documented and made part of > the public API? I'd want to change the list to a tuple, but that > seems harmless since it isn't already part of the API. Why make it a tuple? Out of fear someone changes it? Let them change it, and learn about sharing of object references! Agree it should be documented of course. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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Should Python compile as C++?
by Gerhard Häring 05 Feb '02

05 Feb '02

I'm currently doing a native mingw32 port of Python, and I've hit the ugly "initializer is not a constant" problem mentioned in the FAQ. Hmm, looks like I have three options: 1 Fix the Python sources in the Object/ directory and initalize the structs in a seperate init_objects function 2 compile Python with a C++ compiler 3 fix the mingw32 compiler When trying option 2, I recognized that a lot of Python's source is not valid ANSI C++. There are even variable names like "class" and "new". There are of course less obvious issues when trying to make the source compile as C++, in particular a lot more casts are needed. If it's just that Python is supposed to compile as C++ but it hasn't been tested for a while, I could do the necessary fixes and submit a patch. But if that's a new idea, I don't know if fixing it now makes sense. Because I plan to submit the required changes as a patch when the port is ready, I'd like to know if you'd accept a patch for option #1. Gerhard -- This sig powered by Python! Außentemperatur in München: 6.1 °C Wind: 4.0 m/s

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Re: Network access from conference?
by Guido van Rossum 03 Feb '02

03 Feb '02

Thought this might be good to know! --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 14:35:44 -0500 From: Kevin Jacobs <jacobs(a)penguin.theopalgroup.com> To: <guido(a)python.org> Subject: FYI: Re: Network access from conference? I am bringing a wireless access point, so we can create a CAN (Conference Area Network) if you want. Feel free to send out an e-mail to python-dev or the Python10 list and let people know that they can bring their WiFi cards. The only caveat is that I won't arrive until Monday evening, so the first day participants are somewhat out of luck. - -Kevin - -- - -- Kevin Jacobs The OPAL Group - Enterprise Systems Architect Voice: (216) 986-0710 x 19 E-mail: jacobs(a)theopalgroup.com Fax: (216) 986-0714 WWW: http://www.theopalgroup.com ------- End of Forwarded Message

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network access from conference?
by Skip Montanaro 03 Feb '02

03 Feb '02

Any hope of network access from the conference? I have ethernet and wireless cards (no modem - one of those stinkin' winmodems came with my laptop). Thx, Skip

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distutils & stderr
by Skip Montanaro 03 Feb '02

03 Feb '02

If I could "cvs up" I would submit a patch, but in the meantime, is there any good reason that distutils shouldn't write its output to stderr? I'm using PyInline to execute a little bit of C code that returns some information about the system to the calling Python code. This code then sends some output to stdout. I've patched my local directory tree so that distutils sends its output to sys.stderr. Is there some overriding reason distutils messages should go to sys.stdout? BTW, Python + PyInline makes a hell of a lot easier to understand configure script... ;-) Skip

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opcode performance measurements
by Jeremy Hylton 02 Feb '02

02 Feb '02

I've made some simple measurements of how long opcodes take to execute and how long it takes to go around the mainloop, using the Pentim timestamp counter, which measures processor cycles. The results aren't particularly surprising, but they provide some empirical validation of what we've believed all along. I don't have time to go into all the gory details here, though I plan to at Spam 10 developers day next week. I put together a few Web pages that summarize the data I've collected on some simple benchmarks: http://www.zope.org/Members/jeremy/CurrentAndFutureProjects/PerformanceMeas… Comments and questions are welcome. I've got a little time to do more measurement and analysis before devday. Jeremy

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Patch to enable sys.setdlopenflags() on MacOSX
by Jack Jansen 01 Feb '02

01 Feb '02

I put a patch on sourceforge, #511962, which enables sys.setdlopenflags() on MacOSX. The only values you can pass are 0 (the default, dynamic modules are each loaded into their own private symbol namespace) and 0x100 (modules are loaded into the process' global symbol namespace, so they can refer to eah other's symbols). As the API is compatible with Linux I hope this solves the problem of the people who want a global namespace, could they please apply the patch and see whether it works? As I myself think this is a hack upon a hack, could people with Strong Opinions (you know who you are:-) please tell (a) me to commit the patch, (b) me to change the patch, or (c) the people addressed in the previous paragraph to not do what they're doing:-) -- - Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com> http://www.cwi.nl/~jack - - If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman -

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Re: [Python-checkins] CVS: python/dist/src/Misc NEWS,1.352,1.353
by M.-A. Lemburg 01 Feb '02

01 Feb '02

Tim Peters wrote: > > [MAL] > > Wouldn't it be better to use Win32 APIs for this ? That way, > > other compilers on Windows will have a chance to use the > > same code. > > I have no reason to believe that other compilers on Windows don't follow MS > in this respect; they usually seem to ape the same functions, sometimes with > or without leading underscores, or other trivial name changes. If you want > to wrestle with the Win32 API, be my guest <wink>. I'm no Win32 expert, just though that the code in the win32process module (which is part of win32all) probably already provides code in this area. Another candidate for Windows emulation would be os.kill(). win32process has TerminateProcess() which could probably be used for this (no idea however, how you get from a PID to a process handle on Windows). Anyway, just a thought... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/

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Re: [Python-Dev] distutils & stderr
by Michael Hudson 01 Feb '02

01 Feb '02

Greg Ward <gward(a)python.net> writes: > On 31 January 2002, Jeremy Hylton said: > > I started a thread on similar issues on the distutils-sig mailing list > > a week or two ago. There's agreement that output is a problem. > > The amount of output, or the binary nature of control (total silence > vs. total verbosity)? I knew that was a minor problem when I wrote that > code initially, but had bigger fish to fry. I'm thinking that verbose should range from about -2 (no output at all, even from commands if we can supress it) to about 2 (stupid amounts of output) with the default being 0, where we take our guide from what make outputs by default. -v and -q would then be additive on the command line, so python setup.py -q -v -v -q -q would be an odd way of specifying "verbose==-1". > FWIW, my current thinking is that code that wants to be chatty should do > something like this: > > log(1, "installing foo.bar package") > ... > log(2, "copying foo/bar/baz.py to /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/foo/bar") > > The first number is the logging threshold, compared against a global > verbosity level. This sounds good. > In a strongly OO system like the Distutils, that should probably be > spelled > > log(N, msg) > > where the logging threshold is carried around in each object (or in some > global object). > > This shouldn't be too hard to bolt onto the existing code -- ISTR that > the verbose flag is readily available to every object in the system; > just change it from a boolean to an integer and ensure that every log > message goes through self.log(). > > Oh wait: most of the low-level worker code in the Distutils falls > outside the main class hierarchy, so the verbose flag isn't *quite* so > readily available; it gets passed in to a heck of a lot of functions. > Crap. There are a lot of calls in disutils that go func(...,...,verbose=self.verbose, dry_run=self.dry_run); Would it really be so bad to have a global "verbose" variable in, say, core? (same for dry_run, too). Of course, what I would like is CL-style special variables, but ne'er mind that... -- ARTHUR: Why are there three of you? LINTILLAS: Why is there only one of you? ARTHUR: Er... Could I have notice of that question? -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11

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next vs darwin
by Steven Majewski 01 Feb '02

01 Feb '02

I recall having the discussion but I don't quite recall the resolution: Is Next support now officially dropped from the distribution ? I have a revised dynamic loading module that strips out all of the dead branches ( as well as better error reporting ): I was going to call it dynload_darwin.c and add support to configure, but grepping thru configure I only saw darwin as triggering dynload_next.c -- it *looks* like the Next has bee dropped. Should we rename the file anyway ? ( to make it easier for folks to know where to look. ) There has also been some discussion on the pythonmac-sig list about dynamic loading. There are some other problems that this module doesn't fix yet. If someone wants to subit a better one, that's fine by me, but we REALLY need to get the better error reporting in there so we can at least find the problem. The other thing that's been discussed is adding configure support to build with the dlopen compatability libs if that is available. ( doing config with --without-dyld doesn't seem to change anything. ) -- Steve

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