Mailman 3 June 2002 - Python-Dev

Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Lib formatter.py,1.20,1.21 ftplib.py,1.69,1.70 gettext.py,1.13,1.14 hmac.py,1.5,1.6
by Guido van Rossum 02 Jun '02

02 Jun '02

[Andrew MacIntyre commenting on Raymond H's changes from "if x" to "if x is not None"] > You have in fact changed the semantics of this test with your change. > > In the case where file = '', the original would fall through to the > elif, whereas with your change it won't. The question is whether that's an important change or not. Raymond has changed the semantics in every case where he made this particular change. Usually that's fine. Occasionally it's not. > It concerns me that your extensive changes have introduced some > unexpected traps which won't be sprung until 2.3 is released. Me too. I think 99% of the changes were "right", but without looking at actual use cases much more we won't know where the 1% mistakes are. I think it's okay to do this (because of the 99%) but we should be aware that we may be breaking some code and willing to revert the decision in some cases. I'm not sure how we can test this enough before 2.3 is released -- surely the alphas won't shake out enough. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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Weekly Python Bug/Patch Summary
by Skip Montanaro 02 Jun '02

02 Jun '02

Bug/Patch Summary ----------------- 263 open / 2539 total bugs (+8) 136 open / 1532 total patches (+8) New Bugs -------- crash in shelve module (2001-03-13) http://python.org/sf/408271 UTF-16 BOM handling counterintuitive (2002-05-13) http://python.org/sf/555360 import user doesn't work with CGIs (2002-05-14) http://python.org/sf/555779 removing extensions without admin rights (2002-05-14) http://python.org/sf/555810 installing extension w/o admin rights (2002-05-14) http://python.org/sf/555812 Flawed fcntl.ioctl implementation. (2002-05-14) http://python.org/sf/555817 Expat improperly described in setup.py (2002-05-15) http://python.org/sf/556370 illegal use of malloc/free (2002-05-16) http://python.org/sf/557028 TclError is a str should be an Exception (2002-05-17) http://python.org/sf/557436 netrc module can't handle all passwords (2002-05-18) http://python.org/sf/557704 faqwiz.py could do email obfuscation (2002-05-19) http://python.org/sf/558072 Compile error _sre.c on Cray T3E (2002-05-19) http://python.org/sf/558153 Shutdown of IDLE blows up (2002-05-19) http://python.org/sf/558166 rfc822.Message.get() incompatibility (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558179 unittest.TestResult documentation (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558278 \verbatiminput and name duplication (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558279 DL_EXPORT on VC7 broken (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558488 HTTPSConnection memory leakage (2002-05-22) http://python.org/sf/559117 imaplib.IMAP4.open() typo (2002-05-23) http://python.org/sf/559884 inconsistent behavior of __getslice__ (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560064 PyType_IsSubtype can segfault (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560215 Add docs for 'string' (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560286 foo() doesn't use __getattribute__ (2002-05-25) http://python.org/sf/560438 deepcopy can't handle custom metaclasses (2002-05-26) http://python.org/sf/560794 Maximum recursion limit exceeded (2002-05-27) http://python.org/sf/561047 ConfigParser has_option case sensitive (2002-05-29) http://python.org/sf/561822 Assertion with very long lists (2002-05-29) http://python.org/sf/561858 test_signal.py fails on FreeBSD-4-stable (2002-05-29) http://python.org/sf/562188 build problems on DEC Unix 4.0f (2002-05-30) http://python.org/sf/562585 xmlrpclib.Binary.data undocumented (2002-05-31) http://python.org/sf/562878 Module can be used as a base class (2002-05-31) http://python.org/sf/563060 Clarify documentation for inspect (2002-06-01) http://python.org/sf/563273 Fuzziness in inspect module documentatio (2002-06-01) http://python.org/sf/563298 Heap corruption in debug (2002-06-01) http://python.org/sf/563303 Getting traceback in embedded python. (2002-06-01) http://python.org/sf/563338 Add separator argument to readline() (2002-06-02) http://python.org/sf/563491 New Patches ----------- timeout socket implementation (2002-05-12) http://python.org/sf/555085 Mutable object change flag (2002-05-12) http://python.org/sf/555251 Cygwin AH_BOTTOM cleanup patch (2002-05-14) http://python.org/sf/555929 OSX build -- make python.app (2002-05-18) http://python.org/sf/557719 Ebcdic compliancy in stringobject source (2002-05-19) http://python.org/sf/557946 cmd.py: add instance-specific stdin/out (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558544 SocketServer: don't flush closed wfile (2002-05-20) http://python.org/sf/558547 GC: untrack simple objects (2002-05-21) http://python.org/sf/558745 Use builtin boolean if present (2002-05-22) http://python.org/sf/559288 Expose xrange type in builtins (2002-05-23) http://python.org/sf/559833 isinstance error message (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560250 os.uname() on Darwin space in machine (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560311 Karatsuba multiplication (2002-05-24) http://python.org/sf/560379 Micro optimizations (2002-05-27) http://python.org/sf/561244 webchecker chokes at charsets. (2002-05-28) http://python.org/sf/561478 README additions for Cray T3E (2002-05-28) http://python.org/sf/561724 Installation database patch (2002-05-29) http://python.org/sf/562100 Getting rid of string, types and stat (2002-05-30) http://python.org/sf/562373 Prevent duplicates in readline history (2002-05-30) http://python.org/sf/562492 Add isxxx() methods to string objects (2002-05-30) http://python.org/sf/562501 First patch: start describing types... (2002-05-30) http://python.org/sf/562529 Remove UserDict from cookie.py (2002-05-31) http://python.org/sf/562987 Closed Bugs ----------- pdb can only step when at botframe (PR#4) (2000-07-31) http://python.org/sf/210682 Copy from stdout after crash (2001-11-29) http://python.org/sf/487297 detail: tp_basicsize and tp_itemsize (2001-12-12) http://python.org/sf/492349 Finder Tool Move not working on MOSX (2001-12-15) http://python.org/sf/493826 plugin project generation has problems (2001-12-18) http://python.org/sf/494572 Inaccuracy(?) in tutorial section 9.2 (2002-01-07) http://python.org/sf/500539 random.cunifvariate() incorrect? (2002-01-21) http://python.org/sf/506647 random.gammavariate hosed (2002-03-07) http://python.org/sf/527139 __reduce__ does not work as documented (2002-03-21) http://python.org/sf/533291 rexec: potential security hole (2002-03-22) http://python.org/sf/533625 Running MacPython as non-priv user may fail (2002-03-23) http://python.org/sf/534158 Compile fails on posixmodule.c (2002-04-10) http://python.org/sf/542003 Distutils readme outdated (2002-04-12) http://python.org/sf/542912 bug? floor divison on complex (2002-04-13) http://python.org/sf/543387 base64 newlines - documentation (again) (2002-04-22) http://python.org/sf/547037 cStringIO mangles Unicode (2002-04-23) http://python.org/sf/547537 Missing or wrong index entries (2002-04-25) http://python.org/sf/548693 Poor error message for float() (2002-05-02) http://python.org/sf/551673 PDF won't print (2002-05-03) http://python.org/sf/551828 "./configure" crashes (2002-05-06) http://python.org/sf/553000 cPickle dies on short reads (2002-05-07) http://python.org/sf/553512 bug in telnetlib- 'opt' instead of 'c' (2002-05-09) http://python.org/sf/554073 test_fcntl fails on OpenBSD 3.0 (2002-05-10) http://python.org/sf/554663 --disable-unicode builds horked (2002-05-11) http://python.org/sf/554912 rfc822.Message.getaddrlist broken (2002-05-11) http://python.org/sf/555035 Closed Patches -------------- Reminder: 2.3 should check tp_compare (2001-10-18) http://python.org/sf/472523 foreign-platform newline support (2001-10-31) http://python.org/sf/476814 Cygwin setup.py import workaround patch (2001-12-10) http://python.org/sf/491107 Fix webbrowser running on MachoPython (2002-01-10) http://python.org/sf/502205 fix random.gammavariate bug #527139 (2002-03-13) http://python.org/sf/529408 force gzip to open files with 'b' (2002-03-28) http://python.org/sf/536278 context sensitive help/keyword search (2002-04-08) http://python.org/sf/541031 error about string formatting rewording? (2002-04-26) http://python.org/sf/549187 Unittest for base64 (2002-04-28) http://python.org/sf/550002 __doc__ strings of builtin types (2002-04-29) http://python.org/sf/550290 GC collection frequency bug (2002-05-03) http://python.org/sf/551915 Add degrees() & radians() to math module (2002-05-05) http://python.org/sf/552452 Cygwin Makefile.pre.in vestige patch (2002-05-08) http://python.org/sf/553678 OpenBSD fixes for Python 2.2 (2002-05-10) http://python.org/sf/554719

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PYC Magic
by Neal Norwitz 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

I recently posted a patch to fix a bug: http://python.org/sf/561858. The patch requires changing .pyc magic. Since this bug goes back to 2.1, what is the process for changing .pyc magic in bugfix releases? ie, is it allowed? In this case the co_stacksize > 32767 and only a short is written to disk. This could be doubled to 65536 (probably should be) without changing the magic. But even that isn't sufficient to solve this problem. It also brings up a related problem. If the PyCodeObject can't be written to disk, should a .pyc be created at all? The code will run fine the first time, but when imported the second time it will fail. The other 16 bit values stored are: co_argcount, co_nlocals, co_flags. At least argcount & nlocals aren't too likely to exceed 32k, but co_flags could, which would be silently ignored now. Neal

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Re: Where to put wrap_text()?
by David Goodger 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

Greg Ward wrote: > [1] objects should *be*, not *do*, and class names like > HelpFormatter and TextWrapper are impositions of procedural > abstraction onto OOP. I don't see anything dangerous about -er objects. There are plenty of objects in the real world that end in -er, all nouns: Programmer, Bookkeeper, Publisher, Reader, Writer, Trucker, ad infinitum. Plenty of precedent in the OOP world too: Debugger, Profiler, Parser, TestLoader, SequenceMatcher, Visitor. Objects combine state (data) with behavior (processing); sometimes the state is most important, sometimes the behavior. Following that kind of over-simplified "rule" may do more harm than good. I'm glad you didn't fall for it. ;-) -- David Goodger <goodger(a)users.sourceforge.net> Open-source projects: - Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/ (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html) - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.3 release schedule
by Michael Hudson 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

Tim Peters <tim.one(a)comcast.net> writes: > [Michael Hudson] > > Surprise of the day: this [is all that's required!]: > > > > #if PY_VERSION_HEX < 0x01060000 > > /* raw memory interface already present */ > > > > /* there is no object memory interface in 1.5.2 */ > > #define PyObject_Malloc(size) PyMem_Malloc((size)) > > #define PyObject_Realloc(p, size) PyMem_Realloc((p), (size)) > > ... > > How come not the simpler > > #define PyObject_Malloc PyMem_Malloc > #define PyObject_Realloc PyMem_Realloc > > etc instead? Filling in an argument list prevents use of a name as a > function designator. I thought filling out the arguments was better style, for some reason. Easy enough to change. > > ... > > /* There are three "families" of memory API: the "raw memory", "object > > memory" and "object" families. > > > > Raw Memory: > > > > PyMem_Malloc, PyMem_Realloc, PyMem_Free > > > > Object Memory: > > > > PyObject_Malloc, PyObject_Realloc, PyObject_Free > > > > Object: > > > > PyObject_New, PyObject_NewVar, PyObject_Del > > I rarely mention the PyObject_GC_XYZ family because it's already in good > shape. But its API changed between 2.1 and 2.2, and it would be good to > supply a compatibility layer for it too. Pick Neil's brain <wink>. I was under the impression that the 2.1 and 2.2 interfaces differed in ways that couldn't easily be papered over with macros. I'll check. > > ... > > Comments, flames, etc appreciated. > > I especially liked the (snipped) to-the-point comment blocks; Thanks; I think it is a good idea to describe intended usage in no uncertain terms *somewhere* at least. Probably lots of places. Any book authors reading python-dev? > PyObject_Del problems were already mentioned; thank you! I hope it helps! Cheers, M. -- Famous remarks are very seldom quoted correctly. -- Simeon Strunsky

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Customization docs
by David Abrahams 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

A few questions about customization and the docs, TIA: ------ http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/customization.html tosses off this sentence in the section on rich comparisons: "A rich comparison method may return NotImplemented if it does not implement the operation for a given pair of arguments." ...but it says nothing about the effect that will have. Using Thomas Heller's search engine, I found http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/types.html#l2h-59, which says "...Numeric methods and rich comparison methods may return this value if they do not implement the operation for the operands provided. (The interpreter will then try the reflected operation, or some other fallback, depending on the operator.) " This seems like the wrong place to bury the description of the mechanism for operating on heterogeneous arguments. Shouldn't a short description go into the Customization section of the docs? ------- It also mentions, "There are no reflected (swapped-argument) versions of these methods (to be used when the left argument does not support the operation but the right argument does)..." since these are the first binary operators described the whole concept of reflected methods hasn't been introduced yet, and the user has no reason to think that reflected versions should exist. [incidentally, "reflected" and "reflection" produce no hits with Thomas' engine] -------

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Re: [Python-Dev] Customization docs
by David Abrahams 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido(a)python.org> > > As I indicated in my previous mail, I didn't expect any other result. > > Then your question was formulated strangely. You showed the result > and said "how does it know that list items are immutable"; the context > suggested strongly to me that you had expected something else. > > > My question was about what a new type needs to do in order for things to > > work properly in Python. > > You could have asked that directly. :-) Incorrect background assumptions have a way of fouling communication. I hope it's obvious that I'm making an effort to be clear. -Dave

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Those (punctuations and skul heads) bug tracking systems! :-)
by pinard＠iro.umontreal.ca 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

Hi, gang. Anecdotical rants from a technical Luddite, yours truly! :-) A few days ago, I wrote Fred about a tiny problem in Python documentation. Fred replied (very nicely, don't doubt it) something like "Yes, this should absolutely be corrected, but being busy now, I might forget about this -- so please submit a bug report using the SF tracker". I learnt to shudder with horror when people tell me such things. Email is so simple, clean, expeditive and human! Each time I have to use a BTS, this is the same story, I spend a lot of hours studying around, then later experimenting with the system. And finally, I invariably fall in dead ends, after having met a few blatant bugs in the BTS itself. Don't tell me it's my browser. The browser is an integral part of the BTS. Think "user" here! So, trying once more to be a good citizen, I spent many hours yesterday at sorting and reading the email I saved over time, about various comments or references from Python developers about the BTS in use. If I filed these, this is foreseeing I could not escape the Python BTS forever, especially if I want to involve myself a bit more. Reading all this more attentively, I noticed a flurry of alternate, confusing, and sometimes heavy notations to access already submitted reports and documentation, changes in numbering and methods over time that were did not always seem to be fully gracious, I admired the relative nicety of the Python SF redirector, and its minor short-comings. Notable to me were many developer comments about reports being mis-attributed, re-filed, unduly aging or nearly lost in practice. This morning, I decided to do the great try, knowing that there is a facility to prepare the message offline using a reasonable editor (Netscape is very far from my concept of a usable editor) and submit it afterwards. I prepared the message yesterday, saved it into a `temp0' file, and moved it over to the machine here, coming back from travel. Netscape first refused to see that `temp0' file in its directory in the file browsing window, it apparently only saw `*.html' files. I was surely not to turn my little communication into HTML first for Fred to see, so I merely typed the file name in the upload box. "Category", "Group", "Summary", "Check to Upload and Attach File" all had a little '?' besides them, from which I expected some documentation, but clicking on them yielded "File loaded" in the bottom echo area, and _nothing_ more. For "File Description" in particular, I would have needed more information, but there was no `?' next to it, so I merely guessed it wanted a MIME type and wrote "text/plain" within it. Clicking "SUBMIT" gave something like "ERROR Invalid file name", and no kind of feedback about the bug having been submitted. So I guessed the file needed an extension, and renamed `temp0' into `temp0.txt', then modified the file name accordingly in the upload box. Re-attempting "SUBMIT" a second time yielded: "ERROR You Attempted To Double-submit this item. Please avoid double-clicking." Sigh! The usual misery! OK. Instead of uploading a prepared file, I will now proceed to try cut and pasting into Netscape from a real editor, hoping that the mangling will be limited. I do know I have more comments and nuances for Fred, I should find the courage to share them: I fear one does not have much of a choice for contributing. Such rotten reporting systems are merely discouraging. Hmph! I'll continue trying to tame myself to these user interface failures. Sometimes, I ponder that if all maintainers were using the same BTS, the effort of learning to cope with _that one_ would probably have some more worth. I do imagine that a BTS could be useful. There are many BTS around, random projects using random BTS -- so the effort of fighting with BTS often has to be restarted when you play in many fields. Moreover, the truth is, at least for Python, that using a BTS does not solve the main problem, which is the insufficient number of contributors and developers. Risk for risk, I still think I have a much better chance being listened to and understood when I write to Fred directly! With some luck, Fred is an ordered and careful man who, just like me, is able to handle folders. I read with pleasure all the thread saying that `roundup' has an email interface, is actively being improved, and could replace the SF tracker. Let us hope it will be more usable than its precessors! You know, the real goal of all this is allowing for simple and humble communication between humans, about the knowledge of a problem. I surely used to be a very active reporter for all problems I saw everywhere, at the time maintainers were still reachable. When the effort gets too frustrating, sadly, one might feel less inclined to offer contributions, and rather choose to enjoy more of the sun, music, and life! :-) It may look like a useless moan, but it might be worth saying after all. -- François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

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intra-package mutual imports fail: "from <pkg> import <mod>"
by David Goodger 01 Jun '02

01 Jun '02

I ran across this wrinkle and hope that someone can shed some light. First posted to comp.lang.python, but no help there. Can anyone here enlighten me? I have a package on sys.path containing pairs of modules, each importing the other:: package/ __init__.py: # empty module1.py: import module2 # relative import module2.py: import module1 Executing "from package import module1" works fine. Changing the import statements to absolute dotted forms also works for "from package import module3":: module3.py: import package.module4 # absolute import module4.py: import package.module3 However, if I change both imports to be absolute using the "from/import" form, it doesn't work:: module5.py: from package import module6 # absolute import module6.py: from package import module5 Now I get an exception:: >>> from package import module5 Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in ? File "package/module5.py", line 1, in ? from package import module6 File "package/module6.py", line 1, in ? from package import module5 ImportError: cannot import name module5 Is this behavior expected? Or is it a bug? I note that FAQ entry 4.37 [*]_ says we shouldn't do "from <module> import *"; I'm not. Are all "from import" statements forbidden in this context? Why? (It seems to me that "import package.module" and "from package import module" are equivalent imports, except for their effect on the local namespace.) Is there an authoritative reference (docs, past c.l.p post, bug report, etc.)? .. [*] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.037.htp -- David Goodger <goodger(a)users.sourceforge.net> Open-source projects: - Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/ (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html) - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/

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