Mailman 3 December 2005 - Python-Dev

LaTeX and Python doc contributions
by Fred L. Drake, Jr. Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

Just a quick note based on some of the discussion on the Doc-SIG list: Some people are getting asked to convert their documentation contributions to LaTeX themselves, and that *is* a barrier to contribution. I've generally stated that I'm willing to perform conversion, making plain text / ReST completely acceptable for documentation contributions. Others have commonly converted plain text to LaTeX as well. I'd like to make sure that Python committers know that this is reasonable; if … [View More]

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Re: [Python-Dev] status of development documentation
by Phillip J. Eby Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

At 10:27 AM 12/22/2005 +0100, Walter Dörwald wrote: >Phillip J. Eby wrote: > > > [...] > > > > If someone has examples of actual "Pythondoc" markup that don't translate > > to reST, I'd be really interested in seeing them, just for my own > > education. Of course, I'd also be curious how common such constructs are. > >I'm using XML markup for our packages. Examples can be found at >[snip] By "Pythondoc", I mean the LaTeX-based markup system being … [View More]

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timeout options in high-level networking modules
by Jim Fulton Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

Yesterday, I needed to make a web request in a program (actually a test) that could block indefinately, so I needed to set a socket timeout. Unfortunately, AFAICT none of urllib, urllib2, httplib provide options to set the timeout on the sockets they use. I ended up having to roll my own code to make the request. It would be nice if high-level network modules, like the ones mentioned above, had options to provide a timeout. (For example, urlopen could grow an optional timout argument.) … [View More]

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Re: [Python-Dev] status of development documentation
by Michael Chermside Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

I wrote: > My own favorite idea is to create a comment-on-the-docs mechanism > allowing both COMMENTS, and PROPOSED EDITS. Fred Drake replies: > I'm unclear on what you buy with having these two labels; are comments things > that (presumably) get ignored by the documentation editor, or are the > proposed edits simply more specific? Things that get ignored by the doc editors. > (I'm also concerned that the whole thing could end up being misused as a help > desk, littering … [View More]

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Patch to make unittest.TestCase easier to subclass
by Collin Winter Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

Hello all! I just submitted Patch #1388073, designed to make unittest's TestCase class easier to subclass, and I'd appreciate a review of/feedback on the code there. While recently working on a subclass of unittest.TestCase to support TODO-tests, I found a large number of __-prefixed attributes in TestCase. The presence of these attributes meant that I had to copy several methods over to my new subclass in order for things to work. The patch I've provided converts these __-prefixed … [View More]

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Re: [Python-Dev] status of development documentation
by Michael Chermside Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

Steve Holden writes: > Could the PSF help here by offering annual prizes for the best > contributions to the documentation, or wouldn't that be an adequate > motivator? Money is not a very effective motivator for this sort of work. (Well, in sufficient quantities it is, but the quantities required are quite large.) Offering *credit* is more effective -- a mention within a contributors list perhaps. Even more effective is offering the chance to make a difference: immediate feedback (… [View More]

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sets are mappings?
by Michael Chermside Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

Josiah Carlson writes: > New superclasses for all built-in types (except for string and unicode, > which already subclass from basestring). > > int, float, complex (long) : subclass from basenumber > tuple, list, set : subclass from basesequence > dict : subclass from basemapping > > The idea is that each of the above classes define a group in which items > are comparable. Nick Coghlan writes: > Close enough to on-topic to stay here, I think. However, I tend to … [View More]think of > the taxonomy as a little less flat: > > basecontainer (anything with __len__) > - set > - basemapping (anything with __getitem__) > - dict > - basesequence (anything which understands x[0:0]) > - list > - tuple > - string > - unicode > - basearray (anything which understands x[0:0,]) > - Numeric.array/scipy.array Hold on a sec folks! I really don't understand why we are trying to build a taxonomy of container classes. There are some languages which have rather elaborate taxonomys of container classes. The STL comes to mind, Smalltalk (I think), even Java's collection classes are somewhat elaborate. But this is NOT how things have been done in the Python world. We believe that flat is better than nested. We believe in one simple-and-obvious way to do things. For goodness sakes, we don't even have a basic linked-list type because we figure it's simpler to make people just use the single well-tuned array-list implementation. Furthermore, I AGREE with this choice. I realize that in THEORY, a list is simply a bag with the extra feature of ordering, and that a list you can iterate backward is just an iterate-only-forwards list with an extra feature. But I have never found it USEFUL in practice. In languages that support it, I hardly ever find myself saying "well, I'm planning to pass a list, but this method really only needs a bag... it doesn't matter whether it is ordered", then later finding that this made it easy to re-use the method when I had some other bag implementation. Frankly, I find this sort of re-use MORE likely in Python simply because of support for duck typing. So I have a counter-proposal. Let's NOT create a hierarchy of abstract base types for the elementary types of Python. (Even basestring feels like a minor wart to me, although for now it seems like we need it.) If the core problem is "how do you create a canonical ordering for objects that survives serialization and deserialization into a different VM?", then somehow abstract base types doesn't seem like the most obvious solution. And if that's not the problem we're trying to solve here, then what IS? Because I don't know of very many ACTUAL (as opposed to theoretical) use cases for abstract base classes of fundamental types. -- Michael Chermside [View Less]

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status of development documentation
by Trent Mick Dec. 22, 2005

Dec. 22, 2005

[Fredrik wrote] > - could a cronjob that does this be set up on some python.org machine > (or on some volunteer's machine) I bit: http://trentm.com/python/ Cheers, Trent -- Trent Mick TrentM(a)ActiveState.com

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Next PyPy Sprint: Palma de Mallorca (Spain) 23rd - 29th January 2006
by Samuele Pedroni Dec. 21, 2005

Dec. 21, 2005

Palma de Mallorca PyPy Sprint: 23rd - 29th January 2006 ============================================================ The next PyPy sprint is scheduled to take place January 2006 in Palma De Mallorca, Balearic Isles, Spain. We'll give newcomer-friendly introductions and the focus will mainly be on current JIT work, garbage collection, alternative threading models, logic programming and on improving the interface with external functions. To learn more about the new Python-in-Python … [View More]implementation look here: http://codespeak.net/pypy Goals and topics of the sprint ------------------------------ In Gothenburg we have made some first forays into the interesting topics of Just-in-Time compilation. In Mallorca we will continue that and have the following ideas: - Further work/experimentation toward Just-In-Time Compiler generation, which was initiated with the Abstract Interpreter started in Gothenburg. - Integrating our garbage collection toolkit with the backends and the code generation. - Heading into the direction of adding logic programming to PyPy. - Optimization work: our threading implementation is still incredibly slow, we need to work on that. Furthermore there are still quite some slow places in the interpreter that could be improved. - getting the socket module to a more complete state (it is already improved but still far from complete) - generally improving the way we interface with external functions. - whatever participants want to do with PyPy (please send suggestions to the mailing list before to allow us to plan and give feedback) Location & Accomodation ------------------------ The sprint will be held at the Palma University (UIB - Universitat de les Illes Balears), in their GNU/Linux lab (http://mnm.uib.es/phpwiki/AulaLinux). We are hosted by the Computer Science department and Ricardo Galli is our contact person there, helping with arranging facilities. The University is located 7 km away from the central Palma. Busses to the University departs from "Plaza de España" (which is a very central location in Palma). Take bus 19 to the UIB campus. A ticket for one urban trip costs 1 euro. You can also buy a card that is valid for 10 trips and costs 7.51 euros. Information about bus timetables and routes can be found on: http://www.a-palma.es A map over the UIB campus are can be found on: http://www.uib.es/imagenes/planoCampus.html The actual address is: 3r pis de l'Anselm Turmeda which can be found on the UIB Campus map. At "Plaza de España" there is a hostel (Hostal Residencia Terminus) which has been recommended to us. It's cheap (ca 50 euros/double room with bathroom). Some more links to accomodations (flats, student homes and hotels): http://www.lodging-in-spain.com/hotel/town/Islas_Baleares,Mallorca,Palma_de… http://www.uib.es/fuguib/residencia/english/index.html http://www.homelidays.com/EN-Holidays-Rental/110_Search/SearchList.asp?DEST… LOCALISATION=ES%20ISLASBALEARES%20MALLORCA If you want to find a given street, you can search here: http://www.callejeando.com/Pueblos/pueblo7_1.htm To get to Palma De Mallorca almost all low fare airlines and travel agencies have cheap tickets to get there. Information about Mallorca and Palma (maps, tourist information, local transports, recommended air lines, ferries and much more) can be found on: http://www.palmademallorca.es/portalPalma/home.jsp Comments on the weather: In January it is cold and wet on Mallorca Average temperature: 8,4 degrees Celsius Lowest temperature: 2 degrees Celsius Highest temperature: 14,5 degrees Celsius Average humidity rate: 77,6 % So more time for coding and less time for sunbathing and beaches ;-) Exact times ----------- The public PyPy sprint is held Monday 23rd - Sunday 29th January 2006. Hours will be from 10:00 until people have had enough. It's a good idea to arrive a day before the sprint starts and leave a day later. In the middle of the sprint there usually is a break day and it's usually ok to take half-days off if you feel like it. For this particular break day, Thursday, we are invited to the studio of Ginés Quiñonero, a local artist and painter. Ginés have also been the person helping us getting connections to UIB and providing much appreciated help regarding accommodation and other logistical information. For those of you interested - here is his website where there also are paintings showing his studio: http://www.hermetex4.com/damnans/ For those interested in playing collectable card games, this will also be an opportunity to get aquainted with V:TES which will be demoed by Ginés and Beatrice and Sten Düring. For more information on this cardgame - see: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php. (The Mallorca sprint was organized through contacts within the V:TES community). Network, Food, currency ------------------------ Currency is Euro. Food is available in the UIB Campus area as well as cheap restaurants in Palma. You normally need a wireless network card to access the network, but we can provide a wireless/ethernet bridge. 230V AC plugs are used in Mallorca. Registration etc.pp. -------------------- Please subscribe to the `PyPy sprint mailing list`_, introduce yourself and post a note that you want to come. Feel free to ask any questions there! There also is a separate `Mallorca people`_ page tracking who is already thought to come. If you have commit rights on codespeak then you can modify yourself a checkout of http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/mallorca-2006/people.txt .. _`PyPy sprint mailing list`: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-sprint .. _`Mallorca people`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/mallorca-2006/people.html [View Less]

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Incorporation of zlib sources into Python subversion
by "Martin v. Löwis" Dec. 21, 2005

Dec. 21, 2005

Thomas (Heller) and I have been discussing whether the zlib module should become builtin, atleast on Win32 (i.e. part of python25.dll). This would simplify py2exe, which then could bootstrap extraction from the compressed file just with pythonxy.dll (clearly, zlib.pyd cannot be *in* the compressed file). We currently don't do this, because the pythoncore.vcproj would then not be buildable anymore unless you also have the right version of zlib on disk. To solve this, Thomas has proposed that … [View More]

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