Python-Dev November 2007

python-dev@python.org

77 participants
92 discussions

by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc

Hello, As you may have seen, I have recently been granted developer privileges on python svn. Let me introduce myself. I am French, 35 years old, and father of 5 children. I work as a programmer in a fund manager company, and have been working with python for eight years now. What I mostly like in python are: - fun to work with - its robustness: not only against bugs, but the stability of its concepts, and the readability of its code base; - easy to interface with any other system. To start with python development, I think I will try to help with python3.0, or picking some bugs in the issue tracker. I have some knowledge of the python internals, with hours of debugging sessions of a C++ application mixed with the python interpreter. And I think I have read almost every svn commit for two years. I can also help on win32 specific development. As an example, I find that the distutils module don't work very well with the new compilers. I won't be of much help on Unix, though. I also like good and accurate documentation. Even if my english may be poor sometimes, I can help with writing some parts. Digging in the code to extract specifications is one of my favourite jobs. And of course I can help on other subjects if there is some interest. I am very excited to take part in this great project. So please forgive me if I do something wrong or too quickly. And your (kind) remarks will always be welcome. -- Amaury Forgeot d'Arc

13 years, 4 months

Last chance for PyCon talk & tutorial proposals!

by David Goodger

Thanks to all the proposal authors so far, we have received lots of proposals for PyCon talks & tutorials. But we'd like to have even more. Alas, the proposal submission deadline should have been set after a weekend, not before. So we have decided to extend the proposal submission deadline to Monday, November 19 at midnight (Chicago time). This gives you a *whole extra weekend* to write up your talk and tutorial ideas! If you've been procrastinating, stop! Get started on a proposal instead! See the call for conference talk proposals: http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/proposals/ Topic ideas: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Talk_Subjects http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2007/Feedback#head-e2dca74d1492e49fae11550… See the call for tutorial proposals http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/proposals/ Topic ideas from the PyCon 2007 feedback: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2007/Feedback/TutorialIdeas I hope to see (and hear) you at PyCon 2008! http://us.pycon.org -- David Goodger, PyCon 2008 Chair

13 years, 4 months

Hello, I'm the other new guy

by Christian Heimes

Hello Pythonistas and fellow core developers! After Amaury introduced himself I've decided that I *have* to take some time to introduce myself, too. Hello, my name is Christian Heimes and I'm a 28 years old German from Aachen. Aachen is a beautiful city about 70km West to Cologne and near the borders to The Netherlands and Belgium. Some of you may know me from #python as Crys (|Crys| or Crys_) or my former nick Tiran. Others may have seen me at some Python related conferences like EuroPython 2003 in Charleroi/Belgium, 2004+2005 in Gothenburg/Sweden, DZUG 2004 at the DESY/Hamburg or Plone Conference 2004/Vienna. Before I'm going to bore you with the (Python) story of my life let me tell you something about my persona. I'm of average build and average height but people usually don't describe me as an average guy. Unless you see the more Metal and Gothic like chap with glasses, chin-beard and very long hair in black cloths, boots and a hat as ordinary. *g* When I'm not sitting in front of my box I'm spending time with my beautiful girl friend, listening to music, my friends or in a disco. I enjoy cooking but I rarely spend time in front of the TV. I only watch some well selected series like Myth Busters + LOST and information channels like ARTE. My more exotic hobby is Medieval Living History, also known as Reenactment although we don't take it as serious as Reenacters. I usually describe it as a counter weight to my science and computer interests. We are tailoring cloths and living in tents or castles like people about 1200 to 600 years ago. That is without electricity, mobile phones and computers as much as it is possible these days. It's like a vacation from the modern world for a view days or entire week for me. Now here is the story how Python entered my life: I had my first real contact with Python in 2002 when some friends and me were evaluation web frameworks for the relaunch of our community site. We were all frustrated from our past experiences with PHP and MySQL and were looking for something innovative and more professional. Quickly we were brim over with enthusiasm for Zope3 and Python. But Zope3 wasn't ready in 2002 and the community project went dead after some internal frictions and lack of time. But I kept learning Python and playing around with Zope3 and Zope2. After some Zope related jobs I came in contact with Plone and eventually became a Plone core developer and elected board member of the newly formed Plone Foundation. Unfortunately personal and health problems forced me to drop everything. After things went better again I focused on other areas like PyQt4, Twisted. C#/.NET and PythonDotNET in order to broaden my knowledge and learn other techniques beside CMS and web applications. I came to Python C development as I worked on PythonDotNET for one of my projects. Although it might sound strange how a .NET and C# project got me into C and Python C API but it's easy to explain. In order to fix PythonDotNET for Python 2.5, Mono and UCS-4 builds of Python I had to familiarize myself with the C API of Python. The project is a bridge between CPython and .NET and not related to IronPython. The C# is doing a lot of calls into the C library using a technology that can be compared to ctypes. The code jumps forth and back between C, C#/.NET and Python code. It's a nightmare to debug problems but it's fun, too. Once I had overcome my fear of Python's C API I saw its elegance and started to contribute to Python's core. I wrote some patches for Python 3000 because I saw an opportunity to get involved and contribute. And because I like to play with new stuff ;) After a heap of patches and bug reports Guido finally granted me developer privileges. I'm planing to focus my work on Python 3000. I'm a Linux user (10 years server and 5 years work station experience) but I've a VMWare running to test patches on Windows XP, too. Questions? :) Christian

13 years, 4 months

Re: [Python-Dev] Hello, I'm the other new guy

by Terry Jones

>>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rossum <guido(a)python.org> writes: Guido> I feel left out. I have only one child and I don't qualify as Guido> 'strange' by any stretch of the imagination... Sometimes I think I'm Guido> the only regular guy working on Python. ;-) Ah well, that explains a lot! :-) Anyone else here think they're normal? 1. You're a programmer 2. You work on Python 3. You're on the dev mailing list (and you read it) Each one of those must be worth at least one unit of standard deviation. Terry

13 years, 4 months

Summary of Tracker Issues

by Tracker

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (11/08/07 - 11/15/07) Tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 1330 open (+19) / 11604 closed (+26) / 12934 total (+45) Open issues with patches: 425 Average duration of open issues: 687 days. Median duration of open issues: 798 days. Open Issues Breakdown open 1325 (+19) pending 5 ( +0) Issues Created Or Reopened (47) _______________________________ test_import breaks on Linux 11/09/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1377 reopened gvanrossum py3k Garbage collection not working correctly in Python 2.3 11/09/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1405 reopened tiran [performance] Too many closed() checkings 11/08/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1407 created wojtekwalczak py3k Inconsistence in multiply list 11/08/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1408 created beco new keyword-only function parameters interact badly with nested 11/08/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1409 created _doublep py3k BaseHTTPServer cannot accept Unicode data 11/08/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1410 created isonno A typo in tutorial 11/09/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1411 created falsetru test_subprocess fails on SuSE 10 11/09/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1412 created dvadasz int literal methods inaccessible 11/09/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1413 created mykhal Fix for refleak tests 11/09/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1414 created tiran py3k, patch py3k: pythonw.exe fails because std streams a missing 11/10/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1415 created tiran py3k @prop.setter decorators 11/10/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1416 created gvanrossum patch Weakref not working properly 11/10/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1417 created MHOOO Python/hypot.c is never used 11/10/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1418 created marketdickinson ssl module version 1.10 causes TypeError when accepting connecti 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1419 created complex Unicode literals in tokenize.py and tests. 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1420 created ron_adam py3k, patch python.org: outdated and false information 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1421 created tiran Writing to an invalid fd doesn't raise an exception 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1422 created tiran py3k wave sunau aifc 16bit errors 11/11/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1423 created jeroen py3k: readline and rlcompleter doesn't list choices 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1424 created tiran py3k readline: no display matches hook set 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1425 created tiran py3k readline module needs a review 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1426 created tiran py3k Error in standard module calendar 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1427 created gdamjan patch Update to property.__doc__ 11/11/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1428 created tiran patch FD leak in SocketServer 11/12/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1429 created luke-jr Installing on Vista asks to close Explorer (and Nokia PC Suite) 11/12/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1430 created dabarlow pth files not loaded at startup 11/12/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1431 created gbloisi patch Strange behavior of urlparse.urljoin 11/13/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1432 created yan marshal roundtripping for unicode 11/13/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1433 created cfbolz SocketServer creates non-blocking files 11/13/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1434 created luke-jr Support for multiple handlers for the "with" statement 11/13/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1435 created Stavros logging.config.fileConfig, NameError: name 'RotatingFileHandler' 11/13/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1436 created sebastian List member inside a class is shared by all instances of the cla 11/13/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1437 created glubglub Calling base class methods is slow due to __instancecheck__ over 11/13/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1438 created gvanrossum proposed 3000 patch for socket.py - "socket GC worries" 11/13/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1439 created janssen py3k, patch Checks for PySys_GetObject("std???") == Py_None 11/14/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1440 created tiran py3k, patch Cycles through ob_type aren't freed 11/14/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1441 created rhamphoryncus pythonstartup addition of minor error checking 11/14/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1442 created JosephArmbruster patch Magic class member variable initialization with lists 11/14/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1443 created neoone utf_8_sig streamreader bug, patch, and test 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1444 created jgsack patch SystemError accessing uninitialised cell contents 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1445 created duncanb Link to call me for free 11/15/07 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue1446 created gopiyadav26 patch to make msvccompiler.py work with vs 2005(MSVC8) 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1447 created weck patch Build Python with VS 2005(MSVC8) 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1448 created weck patch make msi work the vs 2005(MSVC8) 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1449 created weck patch make modulator more general 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1450 created weck patch SSL patch for Python 3000 11/15/07 http://bugs.python.org/issue1451 created janssen py3k, patch Issues Now Closed (37) ______________________ py3k: corrections for test_subprocess on windows 72 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1047 tiran patch test_urllib2net fails on test_ftp 57 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1157 tiran py3k pdb fails to launch some script. 33 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1254 tiran pdb bug with "with" statement 33 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1265 amaury.forgeotdarc py3k Add getsize() to io instances 13 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1351 loewis py3k, patch Garbage collection not working correctly in Python 2.3 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1405 gvanrossum Use widechar api for os.environ 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1406 theller py3k, patch Inconsistence in multiply list 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1408 georg.brandl BaseHTTPServer cannot accept Unicode data 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1410 tiran A typo in tutorial 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1411 georg.brandl int literal methods inaccessible 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1413 loewis py3k: pythonw.exe fails because std streams a missing 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1415 amaury.forgeotdarc py3k @prop.setter decorators 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1416 gvanrossum patch Weakref not working properly 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1417 gagenellina Python/hypot.c is never used 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1418 loewis ssl module version 1.10 causes TypeError when accepting connecti 3 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1419 janssen Unicode literals in tokenize.py and tests. 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1420 gvanrossum py3k, patch python.org: outdated and false information 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1421 georg.brandl Writing to an invalid fd doesn't raise an exception 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1422 gvanrossum py3k py3k: readline and rlcompleter doesn't list choices 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1424 tiran py3k readline: no display matches hook set 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1425 loewis py3k readline module needs a review 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1426 tiran py3k Error in standard module calendar 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1427 doerwalter patch Update to property.__doc__ 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1428 tiran patch Installing on Vista asks to close Explorer (and Nokia PC Suite) 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1430 loewis marshal roundtripping for unicode 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1433 loewis Support for multiple handlers for the "with" statement 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1435 gvanrossum logging.config.fileConfig, NameError: name 'RotatingFileHandler' 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1436 vsajip List member inside a class is shared by all instances of the cla 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1437 tiran proposed 3000 patch for socket.py - "socket GC worries" 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1439 janssen py3k, patch Checks for PySys_GetObject("std???") == Py_None 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1440 tiran py3k, patch Magic class member variable initialization with lists 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1443 gvanrossum Link to call me for free 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1446 tiran C3 MRO algorithm implementation 1865 days http://bugs.python.org/issue619475 gvanrossum patch Use correct encoding for printing SyntaxErrors 1151 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1031213 ishimoto patch Intel icc build fails with optimizations -O2 227 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1689617 loewis interpreter crash when multiplying large lists 206 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1704621 gvanrossum patch Top Issues Most Discussed (10) ______________________________ 25 py3k: pythonw.exe fails because std streams a missing 4 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1415 14 fromfd() and dup() for _socket on WIndows 12 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1378 11 int literal methods inaccessible 0 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1413 8 Parsing a simple script eats all of your memory 68 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1134 7 Unicode literals in tokenize.py and tests. 1 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1420 7 Fix for refleak tests 6 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1414 7 pdb bug with "with" statement 33 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1265 6 BaseHTTPServer cannot accept Unicode data 1 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1410 6 new keyword-only function parameters interact badly with nested 7 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1409 6 py3k: duplicated line endings when using read(1) 10 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1395

13 years, 4 months

Alternative C implementation idea for collections.deque

by Daniel Stutzbach

Many years ago I implemented a deque type in C (for use in C programs) using a single dynamically sized array as the underling type, along with an extra integer to designate where the "start" of the list is. Somehow, I had always imagined that Python's implementation worked the same way, but was just looking at the code and found that it uses doubly-linked lists of 62-item blocks. I just wanted to toss my approach out there to see if it might offer better performance and/or simpler code (my pure-C implementation is only 80 lines of code). If there's interest, I'd be happy to work it up into a patch. I could also do some performance tests if others have specific use cases they'd like to see tested. I see the advantages as follows: - __getitem__ would take O(1) time instead of O(n) - Dirt simple implementation Compared to the existing code, memory allocation/deallocation is less frequent but more expensive when necessary, working out to O(1) amortized time (same as the current implementation). The basic idea is to use a single dynamically sized array (much like Python's list type). An extra integer points to the start of the deque within the array, and the data implicitly wraps around the end of the list back to the beginning. Here's the basic data structure: struct deque { PyObject **obs; int max_len; /* Number of objects we can store in the deque before having to reallocate */ int len; /* Number of objects currently in the deque */ int start; /* Where in obs the objects starts */ } When len == max_len and the user adds an element, we reallocate obs. Much like Python's list type, this can be done in such a way that memory allocation takes O(1) amortized time (e.g., by doubling max_len).. The start of the list is always obs[start] and the last element of the list is at obs[(start + len - 1) % max_len]. The nth element of the list is obs[(start + n) % max_len]. I think an example would be helpful. For illustrative purposes, suppose we start with max_len=4. Each line is followed by a picture of the data structure's contents: >>> x = deque() {obs = {NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL}, max_len = 4, len = 0, start = 0} >>> x.extend((1,2,3,4)) {obs = {1, 2, 3, 4}, max_len = 4, len = 4, start = 0} >>> x.popleft() {obs = {NULL, 2, 3, 4}, max_len = 4, len = 3, start = 1} >>> x.append(5) {obs = {5, 2, 3, 4}, max_len = 4, len = 4, start = 1} >>> x.popleft() {obs = {5, NULL, 3, 4}, max_len = 4, len = 3, start = 2} >>> x.pop() {obs = {NULL, NULL, 3, 4}, max_len = 4, len = 2, start = 2} Comments? Thoughts? Would a patch be welcome? -- Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D. President, Stutzbach Enterprises LLC

13 years, 4 months

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggestions for Improvements to namedtuple

by Raymond Hettinger

> In my opinion __replace__ should be able to replace multiple fields. This suggestion is accepted and checked-in. See revision 58975. Surprisingly, the required signature change results in improved clarity. This was an all around win. Raymond

13 years, 4 months

smlop - maintaned ? - what is the status of this module ?

by Grzegorz Makarewicz

Hi I have some scripts where this module is used - asyncore, xmlrpc, sgmlop. Some errors are arriving - memory errors reported by msvc2005 malloc/free. Where I should report bugs ? my env: py-2.5- partial cvs, sgmlop either from Frideric-s site or pyxml - same effect. tia, mak

13 years, 4 months

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggestions for Improvements to namedtuple

by Raymond Hettinger

> crucial stuff like __fields__ ... fully > read-write. On further thought, I think this is a good idea. Nothing good can come from writing to this class variable. Suggestion is checked-in in rev 58971. Curiously, it was already documented as read-only (I took the time machine out for a spin). Raymond

13 years, 4 months

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggestions for Improvements to namedtuple

by Raymond Hettinger

> for efficiency I would prefer to avoid using * to break > up the sequences generated directly by the database interface. There are some use cases that would be better served by an alternate design and others that are better served by the current design. For example, it would really suck to have to type-out an an enclosing set of parenthesis to build a named tuple explicitly: opt = StockOption((daysleft/360., strike/100.0, bool(putcall))). The alternate signature was discussed and rejected previously. See some of the details on previous python-dev posting and in the ASPN recipe discussion: at some length in the ASPN recipe: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/500261 FWIW, the current design does work efficiently with your use case if you use itertools to apply the named tuple cast to large record sets. See the example in the docs: http://docs.python.org/dev/library/collections.html#named-tuple-factory-fun… Also, fwiw, I've had good success using this starmap() approach in some performance critcal applications. Almost every class in Python could be subjected to the same discussion. Why doesn't every class and function accept a tuple of args instead of separate, serial arguments. The * operator and starmap() function were provided specifically to address the inter-conversion between the two approaches. > It would be nice to be able to have default values This came-up before, but I'll take another look at it this weekend. If it significantly complicates the API or impacts performance, then it is a non-starter; otherwise, I'll put together an implementation and float it on ASPN for comments. > In my opinion __replace__ should be able to replace multiple fields. This may be do-able. Will take a look at it. The current design is easily extended for this without impacting performance. The question is whether is makes sense in normal applications to do multiple replacements at once. FWIW, the str.replace function only has one target/replacement pair. > To me, exec is a last resort It was a last resort here also. Earlier versions of the recipe used type() but they were less flexible, slower, had crummy error reporting, and were much less clear. The exec version has the advantage of being able to print-out the template so you can see *exactly* what it is doing. I ended-up putting in a lot f field validation to prevent injection attacks (they are also they to provide more actionable error messages). > crucial stuff like __fields__ and __signature__ fully > read-write. It feels like those should be read-only properties. > ... On the other hand, I'm a recovering Java programmer, Welcome to the Python world of consenting adults. These fields could be made read-only but that is just a matter of taste. Looking through the standard library, you'll see making attributes read-only is not the typical practice. If users demand it, I don't see a problem with it, but until then, I don't see a reason to unnecessarily complicate and slow-down the code. FWIW, you're welcome to email me directly. I've been getting tons of user feedback and have already incorporated the better suggestions. Also, the recipe itself is a combination of the best of prior attempts. Unfortunately, each of several commenters revisit everything from scratch and propose their own complete rewrites that ignore the requests and commments of all those who preceded them. Fortunately, we're homing in on a darned good tool. Raymond

13 years, 4 months

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Python-Dev November 2007