Mailman 3 June 2007 - Python-Dev

PEP 1, PEP Purpose and Guidelines
by barry＠zope.com May 18, 2021

May 18, 2021

It has been a while since I posted a copy of PEP 1 to the mailing lists and newsgroups. I've recently done some updating of a few sections, so in the interest of gaining wider community participation in the Python development process, I'm posting the latest revision of PEP 1 here. A version of the PEP is always available on-line at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html Enjoy, -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- PEP: 1 Title: PEP Purpose and Guidelines Version: … [View More]$Revision: 1.36 $ Last-Modified: $Date: 2002/07/29 18:34:59 $ Author: Barry A. Warsaw, Jeremy Hylton Status: Active Type: Informational Created: 13-Jun-2000 Post-History: 21-Mar-2001, 29-Jul-2002 What is a PEP? PEP stands for Python Enhancement Proposal. A PEP is a design document providing information to the Python community, or describing a new feature for Python. The PEP should provide a concise technical specification of the feature and a rationale for the feature. We intend PEPs to be the primary mechanisms for proposing new features, for collecting community input on an issue, and for documenting the design decisions that have gone into Python. The PEP author is responsible for building consensus within the community and documenting dissenting opinions. Because the PEPs are maintained as plain text files under CVS control, their revision history is the historical record of the feature proposal[1]. Kinds of PEPs There are two kinds of PEPs. A standards track PEP describes a new feature or implementation for Python. An informational PEP describes a Python design issue, or provides general guidelines or information to the Python community, but does not propose a new feature. Informational PEPs do not necessarily represent a Python community consensus or recommendation, so users and implementors are free to ignore informational PEPs or follow their advice. PEP Work Flow The PEP editor, Barry Warsaw <peps(a)python.org>, assigns numbers for each PEP and changes its status. The PEP process begins with a new idea for Python. It is highly recommended that a single PEP contain a single key proposal or new idea. The more focussed the PEP, the more successfully it tends to be. The PEP editor reserves the right to reject PEP proposals if they appear too unfocussed or too broad. If in doubt, split your PEP into several well-focussed ones. Each PEP must have a champion -- someone who writes the PEP using the style and format described below, shepherds the discussions in the appropriate forums, and attempts to build community consensus around the idea. The PEP champion (a.k.a. Author) should first attempt to ascertain whether the idea is PEP-able. Small enhancements or patches often don't need a PEP and can be injected into the Python development work flow with a patch submission to the SourceForge patch manager[2] or feature request tracker[3]. The PEP champion then emails the PEP editor <peps(a)python.org> with a proposed title and a rough, but fleshed out, draft of the PEP. This draft must be written in PEP style as described below. If the PEP editor approves, he will assign the PEP a number, label it as standards track or informational, give it status 'draft', and create and check-in the initial draft of the PEP. The PEP editor will not unreasonably deny a PEP. Reasons for denying PEP status include duplication of effort, being technically unsound, not providing proper motivation or addressing backwards compatibility, or not in keeping with the Python philosophy. The BDFL (Benevolent Dictator for Life, Guido van Rossum) can be consulted during the approval phase, and is the final arbitrator of the draft's PEP-ability. If a pre-PEP is rejected, the author may elect to take the pre-PEP to the comp.lang.python newsgroup (a.k.a. python-list(a)python.org mailing list) to help flesh it out, gain feedback and consensus from the community at large, and improve the PEP for re-submission. The author of the PEP is then responsible for posting the PEP to the community forums, and marshaling community support for it. As updates are necessary, the PEP author can check in new versions if they have CVS commit permissions, or can email new PEP versions to the PEP editor for committing. Standards track PEPs consists of two parts, a design document and a reference implementation. The PEP should be reviewed and accepted before a reference implementation is begun, unless a reference implementation will aid people in studying the PEP. Standards Track PEPs must include an implementation - in the form of code, patch, or URL to same - before it can be considered Final. PEP authors are responsible for collecting community feedback on a PEP before submitting it for review. A PEP that has not been discussed on python-list(a)python.org and/or python-dev(a)python.org will not be accepted. However, wherever possible, long open-ended discussions on public mailing lists should be avoided. Strategies to keep the discussions efficient include, setting up a separate SIG mailing list for the topic, having the PEP author accept private comments in the early design phases, etc. PEP authors should use their discretion here. Once the authors have completed a PEP, they must inform the PEP editor that it is ready for review. PEPs are reviewed by the BDFL and his chosen consultants, who may accept or reject a PEP or send it back to the author(s) for revision. Once a PEP has been accepted, the reference implementation must be completed. When the reference implementation is complete and accepted by the BDFL, the status will be changed to `Final.' A PEP can also be assigned status `Deferred.' The PEP author or editor can assign the PEP this status when no progress is being made on the PEP. Once a PEP is deferred, the PEP editor can re-assign it to draft status. A PEP can also be `Rejected'. Perhaps after all is said and done it was not a good idea. It is still important to have a record of this fact. PEPs can also be replaced by a different PEP, rendering the original obsolete. This is intended for Informational PEPs, where version 2 of an API can replace version 1. PEP work flow is as follows: Draft -> Accepted -> Final -> Replaced ^ +----> Rejected v Deferred Some informational PEPs may also have a status of `Active' if they are never meant to be completed. E.g. PEP 1. What belongs in a successful PEP? Each PEP should have the following parts: 1. Preamble -- RFC822 style headers containing meta-data about the PEP, including the PEP number, a short descriptive title (limited to a maximum of 44 characters), the names, and optionally the contact info for each author, etc. 2. Abstract -- a short (~200 word) description of the technical issue being addressed. 3. Copyright/public domain -- Each PEP must either be explicitly labelled as placed in the public domain (see this PEP as an example) or licensed under the Open Publication License[4]. 4. Specification -- The technical specification should describe the syntax and semantics of any new language feature. The specification should be detailed enough to allow competing, interoperable implementations for any of the current Python platforms (CPython, JPython, Python .NET). 5. Motivation -- The motivation is critical for PEPs that want to change the Python language. It should clearly explain why the existing language specification is inadequate to address the problem that the PEP solves. PEP submissions without sufficient motivation may be rejected outright. 6. Rationale -- The rationale fleshes out the specification by describing what motivated the design and why particular design decisions were made. It should describe alternate designs that were considered and related work, e.g. how the feature is supported in other languages. The rationale should provide evidence of consensus within the community and discuss important objections or concerns raised during discussion. 7. Backwards Compatibility -- All PEPs that introduce backwards incompatibilities must include a section describing these incompatibilities and their severity. The PEP must explain how the author proposes to deal with these incompatibilities. PEP submissions without a sufficient backwards compatibility treatise may be rejected outright. 8. Reference Implementation -- The reference implementation must be completed before any PEP is given status 'Final,' but it need not be completed before the PEP is accepted. It is better to finish the specification and rationale first and reach consensus on it before writing code. The final implementation must include test code and documentation appropriate for either the Python language reference or the standard library reference. PEP Template PEPs are written in plain ASCII text, and should adhere to a rigid style. There is a Python script that parses this style and converts the plain text PEP to HTML for viewing on the web[5]. PEP 9 contains a boilerplate[7] template you can use to get started writing your PEP. Each PEP must begin with an RFC822 style header preamble. The headers must appear in the following order. Headers marked with `*' are optional and are described below. All other headers are required. PEP: <pep number> Title: <pep title> Version: <cvs version string> Last-Modified: <cvs date string> Author: <list of authors' real names and optionally, email addrs> * Discussions-To: <email address> Status: <Draft | Active | Accepted | Deferred | Final | Replaced> Type: <Informational | Standards Track> * Requires: <pep numbers> Created: <date created on, in dd-mmm-yyyy format> * Python-Version: <version number> Post-History: <dates of postings to python-list and python-dev> * Replaces: <pep number> * Replaced-By: <pep number> The Author: header lists the names and optionally, the email addresses of all the authors/owners of the PEP. The format of the author entry should be address(a)dom.ain (Random J. User) if the email address is included, and just Random J. User if the address is not given. If there are multiple authors, each should be on a separate line following RFC 822 continuation line conventions. Note that personal email addresses in PEPs will be obscured as a defense against spam harvesters. Standards track PEPs must have a Python-Version: header which indicates the version of Python that the feature will be released with. Informational PEPs do not need a Python-Version: header. While a PEP is in private discussions (usually during the initial Draft phase), a Discussions-To: header will indicate the mailing list or URL where the PEP is being discussed. No Discussions-To: header is necessary if the PEP is being discussed privately with the author, or on the python-list or python-dev email mailing lists. Note that email addresses in the Discussions-To: header will not be obscured. Created: records the date that the PEP was assigned a number, while Post-History: is used to record the dates of when new versions of the PEP are posted to python-list and/or python-dev. Both headers should be in dd-mmm-yyyy format, e.g. 14-Aug-2001. PEPs may have a Requires: header, indicating the PEP numbers that this PEP depends on. PEPs may also have a Replaced-By: header indicating that a PEP has been rendered obsolete by a later document; the value is the number of the PEP that replaces the current document. The newer PEP must have a Replaces: header containing the number of the PEP that it rendered obsolete. PEP Formatting Requirements PEP headings must begin in column zero and the initial letter of each word must be capitalized as in book titles. Acronyms should be in all capitals. The body of each section must be indented 4 spaces. Code samples inside body sections should be indented a further 4 spaces, and other indentation can be used as required to make the text readable. You must use two blank lines between the last line of a section's body and the next section heading. You must adhere to the Emacs convention of adding two spaces at the end of every sentence. You should fill your paragraphs to column 70, but under no circumstances should your lines extend past column 79. If your code samples spill over column 79, you should rewrite them. Tab characters must never appear in the document at all. A PEP should include the standard Emacs stanza included by example at the bottom of this PEP. A PEP must contain a Copyright section, and it is strongly recommended to put the PEP in the public domain. When referencing an external web page in the body of a PEP, you should include the title of the page in the text, with a footnote reference to the URL. Do not include the URL in the body text of the PEP. E.g. Refer to the Python Language web site [1] for more details. ... [1] http://www.python.org When referring to another PEP, include the PEP number in the body text, such as "PEP 1". The title may optionally appear. Add a footnote reference that includes the PEP's title and author. It may optionally include the explicit URL on a separate line, but only in the References section. Note that the pep2html.py script will calculate URLs automatically, e.g.: ... Refer to PEP 1 [7] for more information about PEP style ... References [7] PEP 1, PEP Purpose and Guidelines, Warsaw, Hylton http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html If you decide to provide an explicit URL for a PEP, please use this as the URL template: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-xxxx.html PEP numbers in URLs must be padded with zeros from the left, so as to be exactly 4 characters wide, however PEP numbers in text are never padded. Reporting PEP Bugs, or Submitting PEP Updates How you report a bug, or submit a PEP update depends on several factors, such as the maturity of the PEP, the preferences of the PEP author, and the nature of your comments. For the early draft stages of the PEP, it's probably best to send your comments and changes directly to the PEP author. For more mature, or finished PEPs you may want to submit corrections to the SourceForge bug manager[6] or better yet, the SourceForge patch manager[2] so that your changes don't get lost. If the PEP author is a SF developer, assign the bug/patch to him, otherwise assign it to the PEP editor. When in doubt about where to send your changes, please check first with the PEP author and/or PEP editor. PEP authors who are also SF committers, can update the PEPs themselves by using "cvs commit" to commit their changes. Remember to also push the formatted PEP text out to the web by doing the following: % python pep2html.py -i NUM where NUM is the number of the PEP you want to push out. See % python pep2html.py --help for details. Transferring PEP Ownership It occasionally becomes necessary to transfer ownership of PEPs to a new champion. In general, we'd like to retain the original author as a co-author of the transferred PEP, but that's really up to the original author. A good reason to transfer ownership is because the original author no longer has the time or interest in updating it or following through with the PEP process, or has fallen off the face of the 'net (i.e. is unreachable or not responding to email). A bad reason to transfer ownership is because you don't agree with the direction of the PEP. We try to build consensus around a PEP, but if that's not possible, you can always submit a competing PEP. If you are interested assuming ownership of a PEP, send a message asking to take over, addressed to both the original author and the PEP editor <peps(a)python.org>. If the original author doesn't respond to email in a timely manner, the PEP editor will make a unilateral decision (it's not like such decisions can be reversed. :). References and Footnotes [1] This historical record is available by the normal CVS commands for retrieving older revisions. For those without direct access to the CVS tree, you can browse the current and past PEP revisions via the SourceForge web site at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/python/nondist/peps/?cvsroot=… [2] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470 [3] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse [4] http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/ [5] The script referred to here is pep2html.py, which lives in the same directory in the CVS tree as the PEPs themselves. Try "pep2html.py --help" for details. The URL for viewing PEPs on the web is http://www.python.org/peps/ [6] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470 [7] PEP 9, Sample PEP Template http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0009.html Copyright This document has been placed in the public domain. Local Variables: mode: indented-text indent-tabs-mode: nil sentence-end-double-space: t fill-column: 70 End: [View Less]

8 14

pthreads, fork, import, and execvp
by Rotem Yaari Sept. 17, 2009

Sept. 17, 2009

Hello everyone! We have been encountering several deadlocks in a threaded Python application which calls subprocess.Popen (i.e. fork()) in some of its threads. This has occurred on Python 2.4.1 on a 2.4.27 Linux kernel. Preliminary analysis of the hang shows that the child process blocks upon entering the execvp function, in which the import_lock is acquired due to the following line: def _ execvpe(file, args, env=None): from errno import ENOENT, ENOTDIR ... It is known that … [View More]

12 29

Re: subprocess and EINTR errnos
by Peter Astrand July 7, 2009

July 7, 2009

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, John P Speno wrote: Hi, sorry for the delayed response. > While using subprocess (aka popen5), I came across one potential gotcha. I've had > exceptions ending like this: > > File "test.py", line 5, in test > cmd = popen5.Popen(args, stdout=PIPE) > File "popen5.py", line 577, in __init__ > data = os.read(errpipe_read, 1048576) # Exceptions limited to 1 MB > OSError: [Errno 4] Interrupted system call > > (on Solaris 9) > > … [View More]Would it make sense for subprocess to use a more robust read() function > which can handle these cases, i.e. when the parent's read on the pipe > to the child's stderr is interrupted by a system call, and returns EINTR? > I imagine it could catch EINTR and EAGAIN and retry the failed read(). I assume you are using signals in your application? The os.read above is not the only system call that can fail with EINTR. subprocess.py is full of other system calls that can fail, and I suspect that many other Python modules are as well. I've made a patch (attached) to subprocess.py (and test_subprocess.py) that should guard against EINTR, but I haven't committed it yet. It's quite large. Are Python modules supposed to handle EINTR? Why not let the C code handle this? Or, perhaps the signal module should provide a sigaction function, so that users can use SA_RESTART. Index: subprocess.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/subprocess.py,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -u -r1.8 subprocess.py --- subprocess.py 7 Nov 2004 14:30:34 -0000 1.8 +++ subprocess.py 17 Nov 2004 19:42:30 -0000 @@ -888,6 +888,50 @@ pass + def _read_no_intr(self, fd, buffersize): + """Like os.read, but retries on EINTR""" + while True: + try: + return os.read(fd, buffersize) + except OSError, e: + if e.errno == errno.EINTR: + continue + else: + raise + + + def _read_all(self, fd, buffersize): + """Like os.read, but retries on EINTR, and reads until EOF""" + all = "" + while True: + data = self._read_no_intr(fd, buffersize) + all += data + if data == "": + return all + + + def _write_no_intr(self, fd, s): + """Like os.write, but retries on EINTR""" + while True: + try: + return os.write(fd, s) + except OSError, e: + if e.errno == errno.EINTR: + continue + else: + raise + + def _waitpid_no_intr(self, pid, options): + """Like os.waitpid, but retries on EINTR""" + while True: + try: + return os.waitpid(pid, options) + except OSError, e: + if e.errno == errno.EINTR: + continue + else: + raise + def _execute_child(self, args, executable, preexec_fn, close_fds, cwd, env, universal_newlines, startupinfo, creationflags, shell, @@ -963,7 +1007,7 @@ exc_value, tb) exc_value.child_traceback = ''.join(exc_lines) - os.write(errpipe_write, pickle.dumps(exc_value)) + self._write_no_intr(errpipe_write, pickle.dumps(exc_value)) # This exitcode won't be reported to applications, so it # really doesn't matter what we return. @@ -979,7 +1023,7 @@ os.close(errwrite) # Wait for exec to fail or succeed; possibly raising exception - data = os.read(errpipe_read, 1048576) # Exceptions limited to 1 MB + data = self._read_all(errpipe_read, 1048576) # Exceptions limited to 1 MB os.close(errpipe_read) if data != "": child_exception = pickle.loads(data) @@ -1003,7 +1047,7 @@ attribute.""" if self.returncode == None: try: - pid, sts = os.waitpid(self.pid, os.WNOHANG) + pid, sts = self._waitpid_no_intr(self.pid, os.WNOHANG) if pid == self.pid: self._handle_exitstatus(sts) except os.error: @@ -1015,7 +1059,7 @@ """Wait for child process to terminate. Returns returncode attribute.""" if self.returncode == None: - pid, sts = os.waitpid(self.pid, 0) + pid, sts = self._waitpid_no_intr(self.pid, 0) self._handle_exitstatus(sts) return self.returncode @@ -1049,27 +1093,33 @@ stderr = [] while read_set or write_set: - rlist, wlist, xlist = select.select(read_set, write_set, []) + try: + rlist, wlist, xlist = select.select(read_set, write_set, []) + except select.error, e: + if e[0] == errno.EINTR: + continue + else: + raise if self.stdin in wlist: # When select has indicated that the file is writable, # we can write up to PIPE_BUF bytes without risk # blocking. POSIX defines PIPE_BUF >= 512 - bytes_written = os.write(self.stdin.fileno(), input[:512]) + bytes_written = self._write_no_intr(self.stdin.fileno(), input[:512]) input = input[bytes_written:] if not input: self.stdin.close() write_set.remove(self.stdin) if self.stdout in rlist: - data = os.read(self.stdout.fileno(), 1024) + data = self._read_no_intr(self.stdout.fileno(), 1024) if data == "": self.stdout.close() read_set.remove(self.stdout) stdout.append(data) if self.stderr in rlist: - data = os.read(self.stderr.fileno(), 1024) + data = self._read_no_intr(self.stderr.fileno(), 1024) if data == "": self.stderr.close() read_set.remove(self.stderr) Index: test/test_subprocess.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/test/test_subprocess.py,v retrieving revision 1.14 diff -u -r1.14 test_subprocess.py --- test/test_subprocess.py 12 Nov 2004 15:51:48 -0000 1.14 +++ test/test_subprocess.py 17 Nov 2004 19:42:30 -0000 @@ -7,6 +7,7 @@ import tempfile import time import re +import errno mswindows = (sys.platform == "win32") @@ -35,6 +36,16 @@ fname = tempfile.mktemp() return os.open(fname, os.O_RDWR|os.O_CREAT), fname + def read_no_intr(self, obj): + while True: + try: + return obj.read() + except IOError, e: + if e.errno == errno.EINTR: + continue + else: + raise + # # Generic tests # @@ -123,7 +134,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen([sys.executable, "-c", 'import sys; sys.stdout.write("orange")'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE) - self.assertEqual(p.stdout.read(), "orange") + self.assertEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout), "orange") def test_stdout_filedes(self): # stdout is set to open file descriptor @@ -151,7 +162,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen([sys.executable, "-c", 'import sys; sys.stderr.write("strawberry")'], stderr=subprocess.PIPE) - self.assertEqual(remove_stderr_debug_decorations(p.stderr.read()), + self.assertEqual(remove_stderr_debug_decorations(self.read_no_intr(p.stderr)), "strawberry") def test_stderr_filedes(self): @@ -186,7 +197,7 @@ 'sys.stderr.write("orange")'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.STDOUT) - output = p.stdout.read() + output = self.read_no_intr(p.stdout) stripped = remove_stderr_debug_decorations(output) self.assertEqual(stripped, "appleorange") @@ -220,7 +231,7 @@ stdout=subprocess.PIPE, cwd=tmpdir) normcase = os.path.normcase - self.assertEqual(normcase(p.stdout.read()), normcase(tmpdir)) + self.assertEqual(normcase(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout)), normcase(tmpdir)) def test_env(self): newenv = os.environ.copy() @@ -230,7 +241,7 @@ 'sys.stdout.write(os.getenv("FRUIT"))'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE, env=newenv) - self.assertEqual(p.stdout.read(), "orange") + self.assertEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout), "orange") def test_communicate(self): p = subprocess.Popen([sys.executable, "-c", @@ -305,7 +316,8 @@ 'sys.stdout.write("\\nline6");'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE, universal_newlines=1) - stdout = p.stdout.read() + + stdout = self.read_no_intr(p.stdout) if hasattr(open, 'newlines'): # Interpreter with universal newline support self.assertEqual(stdout, @@ -343,7 +355,7 @@ def test_no_leaking(self): # Make sure we leak no resources - max_handles = 1026 # too much for most UNIX systems + max_handles = 10 # too much for most UNIX systems if mswindows: max_handles = 65 # a full test is too slow on Windows for i in range(max_handles): @@ -424,7 +436,7 @@ 'sys.stdout.write(os.getenv("FRUIT"))'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE, preexec_fn=lambda: os.putenv("FRUIT", "apple")) - self.assertEqual(p.stdout.read(), "apple") + self.assertEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout), "apple") def test_args_string(self): # args is a string @@ -457,7 +469,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen(["echo $FRUIT"], shell=1, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, env=newenv) - self.assertEqual(p.stdout.read().strip(), "apple") + self.assertEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout).strip(), "apple") def test_shell_string(self): # Run command through the shell (string) @@ -466,7 +478,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen("echo $FRUIT", shell=1, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, env=newenv) - self.assertEqual(p.stdout.read().strip(), "apple") + self.assertEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout).strip(), "apple") def test_call_string(self): # call() function with string argument on UNIX @@ -525,7 +537,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen(["set"], shell=1, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, env=newenv) - self.assertNotEqual(p.stdout.read().find("physalis"), -1) + self.assertNotEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout).find("physalis"), -1) def test_shell_string(self): # Run command through the shell (string) @@ -534,7 +546,7 @@ p = subprocess.Popen("set", shell=1, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, env=newenv) - self.assertNotEqual(p.stdout.read().find("physalis"), -1) + self.assertNotEqual(self.read_no_intr(p.stdout).find("physalis"), -1) def test_call_string(self): # call() function with string argument on Windows /Peter Åstrand <astrand(a)lysator.liu.se> [View Less]

5 5

deprecating BaseException.message
by Brett Cannon April 7, 2009

April 7, 2009

During the PyCon sprint I tried to make BaseException accept only a single argument and bind it to BaseException.message . I was successful (see the p3yk_no_args_on_exc branch), but it was very painful to pull off as anyone who sat around me the last three days of the sprint will tell you as they had to listen to me curse incessantly. Because of the pain that I went through in the transition and thus the lessons learned, Guido and I discussed it and we think it would be best to give up on … [View More]forcing BaseException to accept only a single argument. I think it is still doable, but requires a multi-release transition period and not the one that 2.6 -> 3.0 is offering. And so Guido and I plan on deprecating BaseException.message as its entire point in existence was to help transition to what we are not going to have happen. =) Now that means BaseException.message might hold the record for shortest lived feature as it was only introduced in 2.5 and is now to be deprecated in 2.6 and removed in 2.7/3.0. =) Below is PEP 352, revised to reflect the removal of BaseException.messageand for letting the 'args' attribute stay (along with suggesting one should only pass a single argument to BaseException). Basically the interface for exceptions doesn't really change in 3.0 except for the removal of __getitem__. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PEP: 352 Title: Required Superclass for Exceptions Version: $Revision: 53592 $ Last-Modified: $Date: 2007-01-28 21:54:11 -0800 (Sun, 28 Jan 2007) $ Author: Brett Cannon <brett(a)python.org> Guido van Rossum <guido(a)python.org> Status: Final Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 27-Oct-2005 Post-History: Abstract ======== In Python 2.4 and before, any (classic) class can be raised as an exception. The plan for 2.5 was to allow new-style classes, but this makes the problem worse -- it would mean *any* class (or instance) can be raised! This is a problem as it prevents any guarantees from being made about the interface of exceptions. This PEP proposes introducing a new superclass that all raised objects must inherit from. Imposing the restriction will allow a standard interface for exceptions to exist that can be relied upon. It also leads to a known hierarchy for all exceptions to adhere to. One might counter that requiring a specific base class for a particular interface is unPythonic. However, in the specific case of exceptions there's a good reason (which has generally been agreed to on python-dev): requiring hierarchy helps code that wants to *catch* exceptions by making it possible to catch *all* exceptions explicitly by writing ``except BaseException:`` instead of ``except *:``. [#hierarchy-good]_ Introducing a new superclass for exceptions also gives us the chance to rearrange the exception hierarchy slightly for the better. As it currently stands, all exceptions in the built-in namespace inherit from Exception. This is a problem since this includes two exceptions (KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit) that often need to be excepted from the application's exception handling: the default behavior of shutting the interpreter down without a traceback is usually more desirable than whatever the application might do (with the possible exception of applications that emulate Python's interactive command loop with ``>>>`` prompt). Changing it so that these two exceptions inherit from the common superclass instead of Exception will make it easy for people to write ``except`` clauses that are not overreaching and not catch exceptions that should propagate up. This PEP is based on previous work done for PEP 348 [#pep348]_. Requiring a Common Superclass ============================= This PEP proposes introducing a new exception named BaseException that is a new-style class and has a single attribute, ``args``. Below is the code as the exception will work in Python 3.0 (how it will work in Python 2.x is covered in the `Transition Plan`_ section):: class BaseException(object): """Superclass representing the base of the exception hierarchy. Provides a 'message' attribute that contains either the single argument to the constructor or the empty string. This attribute is used in the string representation for the exception. This is so that it provides the extra details in the traceback. """ def __init__(self, *args): """Set the 'message' attribute'""" self.args = args def __str__(self): """Return the str of 'message'""" if len(self.args) == 1: return str(self.args[0]) else: return str(self.args) def __repr__(self): return "%s(*%s)" % (self.__class__.__name__, repr(self.args)) No restriction is placed upon what may be passed in for ``args`` for backwards-compatibility reasons. In practice, though, only a single string argument should be used. This keeps the string representation of the exception to be a useful message about the exception that is human-readable; this is why the ``__str__`` method special-cases on length-1 ``args`` value. Including programmatic information (e.g., an error code number) should be stored as a separate attribute in a subclass. The ``raise`` statement will be changed to require that any object passed to it must inherit from BaseException. This will make sure that all exceptions fall within a single hierarchy that is anchored at BaseException [#hierarchy-good]_. This also guarantees a basic interface that is inherited from BaseException. The change to ``raise`` will be enforced starting in Python 3.0 (see the `Transition Plan`_ below). With BaseException being the root of the exception hierarchy, Exception will now inherit from it. Exception Hierarchy Changes =========================== With the exception hierarchy now even more important since it has a basic root, a change to the existing hierarchy is called for. As it stands now, if one wants to catch all exceptions that signal an error *and* do not mean the interpreter should be allowed to exit, you must specify all but two exceptions specifically in an ``except`` clause or catch the two exceptions separately and then re-raise them and have all other exceptions fall through to a bare ``except`` clause:: except (KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit): raise except: ... That is needlessly explicit. This PEP proposes moving KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit to inherit directly from BaseException. :: - BaseException |- KeyboardInterrupt |- SystemExit |- Exception |- (all other current built-in exceptions) Doing this makes catching Exception more reasonable. It would catch only exceptions that signify errors. Exceptions that signal that the interpreter should exit will not be caught and thus be allowed to propagate up and allow the interpreter to terminate. KeyboardInterrupt has been moved since users typically expect an application to exit when the press the interrupt key (usually Ctrl-C). If people have overly broad ``except`` clauses the expected behaviour does not occur. SystemExit has been moved for similar reasons. Since the exception is raised when ``sys.exit()`` is called the interpreter should normally be allowed to terminate. Unfortunately overly broad ``except`` clauses can prevent the explicitly requested exit from occurring. To make sure that people catch Exception most of the time, various parts of the documentation and tutorials will need to be updated to strongly suggest that Exception be what programmers want to use. Bare ``except`` clauses or catching BaseException directly should be discouraged based on the fact that KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit almost always should be allowed to propagate up. Transition Plan =============== Since semantic changes to Python are being proposed, a transition plan is needed. The goal is to end up with the new semantics being used in Python 3.0 while providing a smooth transition for 2.x code. All deprecations mentioned in the plan will lead to the removal of the semantics starting in the version following the initial deprecation. Here is BaseException as implemented in the 2.x series:: class BaseException(object): """Superclass representing the base of the exception hierarchy. The __getitem__ method is provided for backwards-compatibility and will be deprecated at some point. """ def __init__(self, *args): """Set the 'args' attribute.""" self.args = args def __str__(self): """Return the str of args[0] or args, depending on length.""" return str(self.args[0] if len(self.args) <= 1 else self.args) def __repr__(self): func_args = repr(self.args) if self.args else "()" return self.__class__.__name__ + func_args def __getitem__(self, index): """Index into arguments passed in during instantiation. Provided for backwards-compatibility and will be deprecated. """ return self.args[index] Deprecation of features in Python 2.9 is optional. This is because it is not known at this time if Python 2.9 (which is slated to be the last version in the 2.x series) will actively deprecate features that will not be in 3.0 . It is conceivable that no deprecation warnings will be used in 2.9 since there could be such a difference between 2.9 and 3.0 that it would make 2.9 too "noisy" in terms of warnings. Thus the proposed deprecation warnings for Python 2.9 will be revisited when development of that version begins to determine if they are still desired. * Python 2.5 [done] - all standard exceptions become new-style classes - introduce BaseException - Exception, KeyboardInterrupt, and SystemExit inherit from BaseException - deprecate raising string exceptions * Python 2.6 - deprecate catching string exceptions - deprecate ``message`` attribute (see `Retracted Ideas`_) * Python 2.7 - deprecate raising exceptions that do not inherit from BaseException - remove ``message`` attribute * Python 2.8 - deprecate catching exceptions that do not inherit from BaseException * Python 2.9 - deprecate ``__getitem__`` (optional) * Python 3.0 [done] - drop everything that was deprecated above: + string exceptions (both raising and catching) + all exceptions must inherit from BaseException + drop ``__getitem__`` Retracted Ideas =============== A previous version of this PEP that was implemented in Python 2.5 included a 'message' attribute on BaseException. Its purpose was to begin a transition to BaseException accepting only a single argument. This was to tighten the interface and to force people to use attributes in subclasses to carry arbitrary information with an exception instead of cramming it all into ``args``. Unfortunately, while implementing the removal of the ``args`` attribute in Python 3.0 at the PyCon 2007 sprint [#pycon2007-sprint-email]_, it was discovered that the transition was very painful, especially for C extension modules. It was decided that it would be better to deprecate the ``message`` attribute in Python 2.6 (and remove in Python 2.7 and Python 3.0) and consider a more long-term transition strategy in Python 3.0 to remove multiple-argument support in BaseException in preference of accepting only a single argument. Thus the introduction of ``message`` and the original deprecation of ``args`` has been retracted. References ========== .. [#pep348] PEP 348 (Exception Reorganization for Python 3.0) http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0348.html .. [#hierarchy-good] python-dev Summary for 2004-08-01 through 2004-08-15 http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-08-01_2004-08-15.html#an-exception-i… .. [#SF_1104669] SF patch #1104669 (new-style exceptions) http://www.python.org/sf/1104669 .. [#pycon2007-sprint-email] python-3000 email ("How far to go with cleaning up exceptions") http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-3000/2007-March/005911.html Copyright ========= This document has been placed in the public domain. .. Local Variables: mode: indented-text indent-tabs-mode: nil sentence-end-double-space: t fill-column: 70 End: [View Less]

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] unicode bug in distutils
by Phillip J. Eby April 5, 2009

April 5, 2009

At 02:47 PM 2/24/2007 -0600, Tarek Ziadé wrote: >I have created a setup.py file for distirbution and I bumped into >a small bug when i tried to set my name in the contact field (Tarek Ziadé) > >Using string (utf8 file): > >setup( > maintainer="Tarek Ziadé" >) > >leads to: > > File ".../lib/python2.5/distutils/command/register.py", line 162, in > send_metadata > auth) > File ".../lib/python2.5/distutils/command/register.py", line 257, in … [View More]> post_to_server > value = unicode(value).encode("utf-8") >UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 10: >ordinal not in range(128) > > >Using unicode: > >setup( > maintainer=u"Tarek Ziadé" >) > >leads to: > > File ".../lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py", line 1094, in write_pkg_file > file.write('Author: %s\n' % self.get_contact() ) >UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in >position 18: ordinal not in range(128) > >I would propose a patch for this problem but i don't know what would be >the best input (i guess unicode > for names) At 05:45 PM 2/24/2007 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote: >Don't you still need to tell Python about the encoding of your string >literals [1] [2] ? E.g.:: That's not the problem, it's that the code that writes the PKG-INFO file doesn't handle Unicode. See distutils.dist.DistributionMetadata.write_pkg_info(). It needs to use a file with encoding support, if it's doing unicode However, there's currently no standard, as far as I know, for what encoding the PKG-INFO file should use. Meanwhile, the 'register' command accepts Unicode, but is broken in handling it. Essentially, the problem is that Python 2.5 broke this by adding a unicode *requirement* to the "register" command. Previously, register simply sent whatever you gave it, and the PKG-INFO writing code still does. Unfortunately, this means that there is no longer any one value that you can use for your name that will be accepted by both "register" and anything that writes a PKG-INFO file. Both register and write_pkg_info() are arguably broken here, and should be able to work with either strings or unicode, and degrade gracefully in the event of non-ASCII characters in a string. (Because even though "register" is only run by the package's author, users may run other commands that require a PKG-INFO, so a package prepared using Python <2.5 must still be usable with Python 2.5 distutils, and Python <2.5 allows 8-bit maintainer names.) Unfortunately, this isn't fixable until there's a new 2.5.x release. For previous Python versions, both register and write_pkg_info() accepted 8-bit strings and passed them on as-is, so the only workaround for this issue at the moment is to revert to Python 2.4 or less. [View Less]

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Python + Java Integration
by Chas Emerick Dec. 5, 2008

Dec. 5, 2008

This may seem like it's coming out of left field for a minute, but bear with me. There is no doubt that Ruby's success is a concern for anyone who sees it as diminishing Python's status. One of the reasons for Ruby's success is certainly the notion (originally advocated by Bruce Tate, if I'm not mistaken) that it is the "next Java" -- the language and environment that mainstream Java developers are, or will, look to as a natural next step. One thing that would help Python in this … [View More]"debate" (or, perhaps simply put it in the running, at least as a "next Java" candidate) would be if Python had an easier migration path for Java developers that currently rely upon various third-party libraries. The wealth of third-party libraries available for Java has always been one of its great strengths. Ergo, if Python had an easy-to-use, recommended way to use those libraries within the Python environment, that would be a significant advantage to present to Java developers and those who would choose Ruby over Java. Platform compatibility is always a huge motivator for those looking to migrate or upgrade. In that vein, I would point to JPype (http://jpype.sourceforge.net). JPype is a module that gives "python programs full access to java class libraries". My suggestion would be to either: (a) include JPype in the standard library, or barring that, (b) make a very strong push to support JPype (a) might be difficult or cumbersome technically, as JPype does need to build against Java headers, which may or may not be possible given the way that Python is distributed, etc. However, (b) is very feasible. I can't really say what "supporting JPype" means exactly -- maybe GvR and/or other heavyweights in the Python community make public statements regarding its existence and functionality, maybe JPype gets a strong mention or placement on python.org....all those details are obviously not up to me, and I don't know the workings of the "official" Python organizations enough to make serious suggestions. Regardless of the form of support, I think raising people's awareness of JPype and what it adds to the Python environment would be a Good Thing (tm). For our part, we've used JPype to make PDFTextStream (our previously Java-only PDF text extraction library) available and supported for Python. You can read some about it here: http://snowtide.com/PDFTextStream.Python And I've blogged about how PDFTextStream.Python came about, and how we worked with Steve Ménard, the maintainer of JPype, to make it all happen (watch out for this URL wrapping): http://blog.snowtide.com/2006/08/21/working-together-pythonjava-open- sourcecommercial Cheers, Chas Emerick Founder, Snowtide Informatics Systems Enterprise-class PDF content extraction cemerick(a)snowtide.com http://snowtide.com | +1 413.519.6365 [View Less]

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Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows
by Mark Hammond March 22, 2008

March 22, 2008

Hi all, I hope the cross-post is appropriate. I've started playing with getting the pywin32 extensions building under the AMD64 architecture. I started building with Visual Studio 8 (it was what I had handy) and I struck a few issues relating to the compiler version that I thought worth sharing. * In trying to build x64 from a 32bit VS7 (ie, cross-compiling via the PCBuild directory), the python.exe project fails with: pythoncore fatal error LNK1112: module machine type 'X86' … [View More]conflicts with target machine type 'AMD64' is this a known issue, or am I doing something wrong? * The PCBuild8 project files appear to work without modification (I only tried native compilation here though, not a cross-compile) - however, unlike the PCBuild directory, they place all binaries in a 'PCBuild8/x64' directory. While this means that its possible to build for multiple architectures from the same source tree, it makes life harder for tools like 'distutils' - eg, distutils already knows about the 'PCBuild' directory, but it knows nothing about either PCBuild8 or PCBuild8/x64. A number of other build processes also know to look inside a PCBuild directory (eg, Mozilla), so instead of formalizing PCBuild8, I think we should merge PCBuild8 into PCBuild. This could mean PCBuild/vs7 and PCBuild/vs8 directories with the "project" files, but binaries would still be generated in the 'PCBuild' (or PCBuild/x64) directory. This would mean the same tree isn't capable of hosting 2 builds from different VS compilers, but I think that is reasonable (if it's a problem, just have multiple source directories). I understand that PCBuild8 is not "official", but in the assumption that future versions of Python will use a compiler later than VS7, it makes sense to me to clean this up now - what are others opinions on this? * Re the x64 directory used by the PCBuild8 process. IMO, it makes sense to generate x64 binaries to their own directory - my expectation is that cross-compiling between platforms is a reasonable use-case, and we should support multiple achitectures for the same compiler version. This would mean formalizing the x64 directory in both 'PCBuild' and distutils, and leaving other external build processes to update as they support x64 builds. Does this make sense? Would this fatally break other scripts used for packaging (eg, the MSI framework)? * Wide characters in VS8: PC/pyconfig.h defines PY_UNICODE_TYPE as 'unsigned short', which corresponds with both 'WCHAR' and 'wchar' in previous compiler versions. VS8 defines this as wchar_t, which I'm struggling to find a formal definition for beyond being 2 bytes. My problem is that code which assumes a 'Py_UNICODE *' could be used in place of a 'WCHAR *' now fails. I believe the intent on Windows has always been "PyUNICODE == 'native unicode'" - should PC/pyconfig.h reflect this (ie, should pyconfig.h grow a version specific definition of PyUNICODE as wchar_t)? * Finally, as something from left-field which may well take 12 months or more to pull off - but would there be any interest to moving the Windows build process to a cygwin environment based on the existing autoconf scripts? I know a couple of projects are doing this successfully, including Mozilla, so it has precendent. It does impose a greater burden on people trying to build on Windows, but I'd suggest that in recent times, many people who are likely to want to build Python on Windows are already likely to have a cygwin environment. Simpler mingw builds and nuking MSVC specific build stuff are among the advantages this would bring. It is not worth adding this as "yet another windows build option" - so IMO it is only worth progressing with if it became the "blessed" build process for windows - if there is support for this, I'll work on it as the opportunity presents itself... I'm (obviously) only suggesting we do this on the trunk and am happy to make all agreed changes - but I welcome all suggestions or critisisms of this endeavour... Cheers, Mark [View Less]

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r45510 - python/trunk/Lib/pkgutil.py python/trunk/Lib/pydoc.py
by M.-A. Lemburg March 21, 2008

March 21, 2008

Phillip.eby wrote: > Author: phillip.eby > Date: Tue Apr 18 02:59:55 2006 > New Revision: 45510 > > Modified: > python/trunk/Lib/pkgutil.py > python/trunk/Lib/pydoc.py > Log: > Second phase of refactoring for runpy, pkgutil, pydoc, and setuptools > to share common PEP 302 support code, as described here: > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-April/063724.html Shouldn't this new module be named "pkglib" to be in line with the naming … [View More]

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Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal for a new function "open_noinherit" to avoid problems with subprocesses and security risks
by Henning von Bargen July 1, 2007

July 1, 2007

Hi, # I'm not sure about netiquette here: # I decided to continue posting to the python-list without CCing to everyone. First of all, here's the prototype. It's a prototype and I know it's far from perfect, but it works for me (in production code) - however, I did not yet test it on Non-Windows. --------------------------------- #!/bin/env python # -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*- """ File ftools.py: Useful tools for working with files. """ import os import os.path import time import shutil … [View More]rmtree = shutil.rmtree move = shutil.move builtin_open = open if os.name != "nt": import fcntl def open(fname, mode="r", bufsize=None): """ Like the "open" built-in, but does not inherit to child processes. The code is using os.open and os.fdopen. On Windows, to avoid inheritance, os.O_NOINHERIT is used directly in the open call, thus it should be thread-safe. On other operating systems, fcntl with FD_CLOEXEC is used right after opening the file; however in a mutli-threaded program it may happen that another thread starts a child process in the fraction of a second between os.open and fcntl. Note: The bufsize argument is ignored (not yet implemented). """ flags = 0 if "r" in mode: flags += os.O_RDONLY elif "w" in mode: flags += os.O_RDWR + os.O_CREAT + os.O_TRUNC elif "a" in mode: flags += os.O_RDWR + os.O_CREAT + os.O_APPEND else: raise NotImplementedError ("mode=" + mode) if os.name == "nt": if "b" in mode: flags += os.O_BINARY else: flags += os.O_TEXT flags += os.O_NOINHERIT try: fd = os.open (fname, flags) if os.name != "nt": old = fcntl.fcntl(fd, fcntl.F_GETFD) fcntl.fcntl(fd, fcntl.F_SETFD, old | fcntl.FD_CLOEXEC) return os.fdopen (fd, mode) except OSError, x: raise IOError(x.errno, x.strerror, x.filename) def copyfile(src, dst): """ Copies a file - like shutil.copyfile, but the files are opened non-inheritable. Note: This prototype does not test _samefile like shutil.copyfile. """ fsrc = None fdst = None try: fsrc = open(src, "rb") fdst = open(dst, "wb") shutil.copyfileobj(fsrc, fdst) finally: if fdst: fdst.close() if fsrc: fsrc.close() ------------------------------------------------ """ blah blah: I googled around a bit, and it more and more seems to me that the Posix system has a serious design flaw, since it seems to be SO hard to write multi-threaded programs that also start child-processes. It's funny that right now Linus Torvalds himself seems to be aware of this problem and that the Linux kernel developers are discussing ways to solve it. Let's hope they find a way to get around it on the OS level. To me, the design of MS Windows looks better in the aspect of process-creation, handle inheritance and multi-threading... Anyway, it has its drawbacks, too. For example, I still cannot specify in a thread-safe way that a handle should be inherited to one child process but not to another - I would have to use a lock to synchronize it, which has its own problems, as Ross Cohen noted. The best solution at the OS level would be to explitly specify the handles/fds I want to be inherited in a "create child process" system call. BTW the Linux kernel developers face the same situation as we do: They could somehow implement a new system function like "open_noinherit", but there's a whole bunch of existing "standard code" that uses open and similar functions like socket(), accept() etc., and they don't want to change all these calls. So perhaps, for Python development, we just have to accept that the problem persists and that at this time a 100% solution just does not exist - and we should watch the discussion on http://lwn.net/Articles/237722/ to see how they solve it for Linux. """ That being said, I still think it's necessary for Python to provide a solution as good as possible. For example, in my production application, by consequently using the ftools module above, I could reduce the error rate dramatically: * With built-in open and shutil.copyfile: Several "Permission denied" and other errors a day * With ftools.open and ftools.copyfile: program running for a week or more without errors. There are still errors sometimes, and I suspect it has to do with the unintenional inheritance of socket handles (I did not dig into SocketServer.py, socket.py and socket.c to solve it). (However, the errors are so rare now that our clients think it's just errors in their network :-). Martin, you mentioned that for sockets, inheritance is not a problem unless accept(), recv() or select() is called in the child process (as far as I understood it). Though I am not an expert in socket programming at the C level, I doubt that you are right here. Apart from by own experiences, I've found some evidence in the WWW (searching for "child process socket inherit respond", and for "socket error 10054 process"). * http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-November/236043.html "socket's strange behavior with subprocesses" Funny: Even notepad.exe is used there as an example child process... * http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/2006-April/032974.html python-Bugs-1469163 SimpleXMLRPCServer doesn't work anymore on Windows (see also Bug 1222790). * http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4202949 Java has switched to non-inheritable sockets as well. * http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=5069989 "(process) Runtime.exec unnecessarily inherits open files (win)" * http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4197666" "Socket descriptors leak into processes spawned by Java programs on windows" ... Any Windows Guru around who can explain what's going on with socket handles and CreateProcess? I mean - is the explanation Martin gave for accept(), recv(), select() correct for Windows, too? And if so - how can the errors be explained that are mentioned in the URLs above? Martin v. Löwis wrote: > In Python 3, it would be possible to implement the "n" flag > for open(), as we call CreateFile directly. BTW, if it will be an additional flag to "open", let me correct myself: "n" is not a good character. Now I prefer "p" like personal, private, protected, process. > > And to open a file non-inheritable should be possible in an easy > > and platform-independent way for the average python programmer. > I don't see why it is a requirement to *open* the file in > non-inheritable mode. Why is not sufficient to *modify* > an open file to have its handle non-inheritable in > an easy and platform-independent way? Because it wouldn't be thread-safe, unless a lock is used for synchronizing subprocess and open calls, which would cause other issues. Are you still reading? Here's a pragmatic proposal: - Add the functions in ftools.py (in a more complete version) to the standard library. Perhaps even add them to the subprocess.py module? - Add a note about handle inheritance to the documentation for the subprocess module, saying that for the parent process, one should avoid using open and prefer ftools.open instead. - Add a global switch to the socket module to choose between new and old behaviour: - New behaviour: In the C level socket implementation, use os.O_NOINHERIT resp. fcntl FD_CLOEXEC Remember: In case you write a forking socket server in Python, you have to use the old behaviour (so, in the ForkingServerMixin, expliticly choose the old behaviour). - Change the logging file handler classes to use ftools.open, so that at least the logging module does not produce errors in a multi-threaded program with child processes. - For Python 3000, search the standard library for unintentional inheritance. What do you think? Henning Footnote: I bet that about 50% of all unexplainable, seemingly random, hard-to-reproduce errors in any given program (written in any programming language) that uses child processes are caused by unintentional handle inheritance. [View Less]

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Py/C API sig is here! --- (Was "Calling Methods from Pythons C API with Keywords")
by Campbell Barton June 30, 2007

June 30, 2007

Hrvoje NikÅ¡iÄ wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 19:25 +0200, "Martin v. LÃÂ¶wis" wrote: >> In the past, we created special-interest groups for such discussion. >> Would you like to coordinate a C sig? See >> >> http://www.python.org/community/sigs/ > > A SIG sounds like an excellent idea. If created, a newcomer with a C > API question could then be redirected to the SIG's mailing list, where > (hopefully, in time) there would be enough knowledgable … [View More]

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