Mailman 3 March 2008 - Python-Dev

editing the docs
by Benjamin Peterson 29 Mar '08

29 Mar '08

Hi, Now that I'm starting to examine and do some edits on the docs, I'd like to ask some guidance. What editor(s) do you guys use? I'm not one to cling to an editor, so all suggestions are fair game. -- Thanks, Benjamin Peterson

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] the release gods are angry at python
by Jeffrey Yasskin 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Bill Janssen <janssen(a)parc.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 3:31 AM, <skip(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > > > > > Neal> Anything that connects to a remote host is definitely flaky. > > > > > > Would it maybe help to set up a dedicated host (or virtual host) to serve as > > > the sole target of all network tests? > > > > It would help, but not fix the problem. There will still be transient > > network issues that come up. > > We really need to be able to wrap a timeout around any individual > test, perhaps throwing a TimeoutException if the timeout is reached, > and have the ability to regard a TimeoutException as not being a > "failure". Something like: @contextmanager def timeout(max_time): def RaiseTimeout(signal, frame): raise TimeoutException # Why don't we have a context manager for the next line? old_alarm = signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, RaiseTimeout) try: signal.alarm(max_time) try: yield finally: signal.alarm(0) finally: signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, old_alarm) with appropriate fallbacks for Windows. I may not be poking at test_support for a bit, so anyone else is welcome to check that in, or a fixed version of it, whenever they're fixing a timing-out test. Someone else will have to implement the support in regrtest, although I wouldn't mind having it treat a timeout as a failure, as long as it's easier to diagnose than the SIGKILL it currently uses for timeouts. -- Namasté, Jeffrey Yasskin

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Decimal(unicode)
by Oleg Broytmann 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

Hello. In Python 2.5.1 the code import decimal for d in '123', u'123': x = decimal.Decimal(d) print type(x.to_eng_string()) prints <type 'str'> <type 'str'> In 2.5.2 it prints <type 'str'> <type 'unicode'> Why the change? Is it a bug or a feature? Shouldn't .to_eng_string() always return a str? Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd(a)phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

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Removing callable() from the stdlib
by Collin Winter 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

I've been running 2to3's fix_callable over 2.6's stdlib to remove -3 warnings due to callable() usage; 2to3 replaces callable(x) with has_attr(x, "__call__"). Unfortunately, this breaks code that wants to run callable() on old-style classes (like test_builtin), because old-style classes don't have a __call__ attribute (new-style classes do, however). How should this be handled? I'm tempted to just add __call__ to old-style classes for 2.6, but Neal Norwitz thought that might break some user code. Any other thoughts? Collin Winter

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] the release gods are angry at python
by Neal Norwitz 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Bill Janssen <janssen(a)parc.com> wrote: > > There > > have been other tests that have also been flaky like test_asynchat, > > test_smtplib, test_ssl, test_urllib2net, test_urllibnet, > > test_xmlrpc_net and some of the tests that use networking. > > Some of the *other* tests that use networking, I think you mean. Yes, primarily networking tests. Also things like signals and threading. > Sounds like networking tests in general are flaky. Anything that connects to a remote host is definitely flaky. Most of the tests that connect to localhost are flaky for one reason or another. One reason used to be port allocation. That is mostly fixed now. The big reason that most tests fail now is EAGAIN or some other error, typically on non-blocking sockets. Switching to blocking sockets isn't really a great option since the tests are much more likely to hang. > > - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/S-390%20Debian%20trunk/builds/255/st… > > Unfortunately, this log has no information about why the test is > failing, and I do not have a Debian-unstable machine to try it on > (much less a six-processor IBM S/390 mainframe running Debian-unstable > -- cool!). I'm unsure about how to make progress here. It's > interesting to see that most of the stable buildbots running Debian > are doing so on big-endian (PPC, Sparc) hardware. > > I also can't tell which branch of Python is being tested, from this > logfile. That would be nice to add. Is this 2.6 (known problems with > SSL) or 3.0 (no known problems with SSL)? Is this information in the > logfile somewhere and I'm not seeing it? The information happens to be encoded in the URL. The URL above is for trunk. You can see more info here: http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/ That is the landing page for all the info you could want. Well, mostly. The logs often don't really have enough info to debug the problem. In that case, it would be better to add more debugging to the tests. n

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Summary of Tracker Issues
by Tracker 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (03/21/08 - 03/28/08) Tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 1794 open (+40) / 12535 closed (+18) / 14329 total (+58) Open issues with patches: 528 Average duration of open issues: 715 days. Median duration of open issues: 1243 days. Open Issues Breakdown open 1770 (+40) pending 24 ( +0) Issues Created Or Reopened (58) _______________________________ 2to3 translates "import foobar" to "import .foobar" rather than 03/21/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2446 created dangyogi Python 2.6 refleak test issues 03/21/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2447 created tiran namedtuple breaks refleak tests 03/21/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2448 created tiran Improved serialization error logging in xmlrpclib 03/21/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2449 created blunck2 urllib2.Request constructor has no timeout parameter 03/21/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2450 created jjlee No way to disable socket timeouts in httplib, etc. 03/27/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2451 reopened facundobatista inaccuracy in httplib timeout documentation 03/21/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2452 created jjlee fix_except needs to allow for empty excepts 03/22/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2453 created loewis sha and md5 fixer 03/22/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2454 created loewis stat.ST_CTIME and stat.ST_ATIME problem 03/22/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2455 created sassas Make sysmodule.c compatible with Bazaar 03/22/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2456 created barry add --help and -h options to pdb 03/22/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2457 created benjamin.peterson patch Allow Python code to change Py3k warning flag 03/22/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2458 created benjamin.peterson patch speedup loops with better bytecode 03/22/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2459 created pitrou patch Ellipsis not copyable 03/22/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2460 created aronacher patch test_util.py for distutils 03/23/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2461 created tarek patch python.exe slowing my system 03/23/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2462 created FireSnake python.exe slowing my system 03/23/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2463 created FireSnake urllib2 can't handle http://www.wikispaces.com 03/23/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2464 created weijie90 sphinx-quickstart.py still creates makefile even if user tells i 03/23/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2465 created varmaa patch os.path.ismount doesn't work for NTFS mounts 03/23/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2466 created rossburton gc.DEBUG_STATS reports invalid "elapsed" times 03/23/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2467 created exarkun patch izip fixer generates incorrect import statement 03/23/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2468 created loewis Fix build error in unicodeobject.c UCS4 03/23/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2469 created benjamin.peterson patch Need fixer for dl (removed) -> ctypes module 03/24/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2470 created nnorwitz imp.get_magic() should return bytes, not bytearray 03/24/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2471 created brett.cannon patch Fixed block ordering code in compiler.pyassem 03/24/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2472 created pitrou patch logging.LogRecord should know how to handle dict-like args 03/24/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2473 created wcmaier fset not working 03/24/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2474 created ryansturmer Popen.poll always returns None 03/24/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2475 created jjcogliati optparse docs should mention %default being new in 2.4 03/24/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2476 created brodierao parser support for future import of unicode_strings 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2477 created nnorwitz patch decimal.Decimal( 0 ).sqrt() fails 03/25/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2478 created glathoud Bytearray and io backport 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2479 created tiran 26backport pickling of large recursive structures fails 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2480 created cyhawk locale.strxfrm does not work with Unicode strings 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2481 created cito Decimal(unicode) 03/25/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2482 created phd int and float accept bytes, complex does not 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2483 created marketdickinson Cosmetic patch for warning "unused variable" 03/25/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2484 created ocean-city patch, patch Traceback changed in 2.6 for unhashable objects 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2485 created mg Consider using bytes type instead of str to store Decimal coeffi 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2486 created marketdickinson patch ldexp(x,n) misbehaves when abs(n) is large 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2487 created fredrikj Backport sys.maxsize to Python 2.6 03/25/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2488 created tiran patch, easy, 26backport Patch for bugs in pty.py 03/26/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2489 created fergushenderson patch Assertion failure in datetime.strftime() 03/26/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2490 created genepi io.open() handles errors differently on different platforms 03/26/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2491 created nnorwitz Check implementation of new buffer interface for PyString in 2.6 03/26/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2492 created tiran 26backport Remove unused constants from optimized code objects 03/26/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2493 created belopolsky patch Can't round-trip datetimes<->timestamps prior to 1970 on Windows 03/27/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2494 created mark tokenize doesn't handle __future__.unicode_literals correctly 03/27/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2495 created tiran test_no_refcycle_through_target sometimes fails in test_threadin 03/27/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2496 created pitrou patch stdbool support 03/27/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2497 created rolland patch bdb modernized 03/27/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2498 created benjamin.peterson patch Fold unary + and not on constants 03/28/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2499 created belopolsky patch Sync _sqlite module code 03/28/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2500 created tiran xml.sax.parser() doesn't terminate when given a filename 03/28/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2501 created mark Add enum() example for named tuples 03/28/08 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue2502 created calvin patch Replace "== None/True/False" with "is" 03/28/08 http://bugs.python.org/issue2503 created calvin patch Issues Now Closed (63) ______________________ zlib.crc32() and adler32() return value 181 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1202 gregory.p.smith 64bit, easy Force BOM option in UTF output. 149 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1328 doerwalter UnicodeDecodeError that cannot be caught in narrow unicode build 125 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1477 amaury.forgeotdarc patch shutil.move() does not use os.rename() if dst is a directory 103 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1577 draghuram patch filehandle.write() does not return None (Python 3.0a2) 72 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1775 georg.brandl AST compile() patch 77 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1810 georg.brandl patch Add key argument to heapq functions 62 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1904 rhettinger patch weak references are removed before __del__ is called. 59 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1918 georg.brandl test_largefile.py converted to unittest 48 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2026 benjamin.peterson patch urllib2 basic auth handler doesn't handle realm names in single- 33 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2136 georg.brandl patch Document PyImport_GetImporter 29 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2160 georg.brandl patch unittest.findTestCases undocumented 28 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2162 georg.brandl Add doc-string to UserDict and DictMixin 30 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2172 belopolsky patch setitimer, getitimer wrapper 19 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2240 loewis patch quit() method of SMTP instance (of smtplib) doesn't return it's 20 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2248 georg.brandl patch test_decimal: possible thread lockup in test case 10 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2273 facundobatista patch Patch for "string without null bytes" check in getargs.c 6 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2298 georg.brandl patch make html fails 5 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2300 georg.brandl patch Py3K warn against using __members__ 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2346 georg.brandl patch, 26backport Py3K warn for using __methods__ 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2347 georg.brandl 26backport Py3K warn using file.softspace 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2348 georg.brandl patch, 26backport cmp argument to list.sort()/sorted() should raise a Py3K warning 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2354 rhettinger patch, 26backport Using buffer() should raise a Py3K warning 8 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2355 georg.brandl patch, 26backport Using sys.exc_clear should raise a Py3K warning 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2358 georg.brandl patch, 26backport A Py3K warning for array.array.{read,write} is needed 8 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2359 georg.brandl patch, 26backport Merge 2.6 ACKS with 3.0 ACKS 7 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2390 benjamin.peterson easy Improvement suggestions for the gzip module documentation 9 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2406 georg.brandl patch pysqlite provides no interface for database SQL dump 9 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2426 gregory.p.smith patch DictReader does not suport line_num 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2432 georg.brandl Undocumented features added to 2.6 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2442 georg.brandl easy urllib2.Request constructor has no timeout parameter 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2450 jjlee fix_except needs to allow for empty excepts 6 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2453 collinwinter add --help and -h options to pdb 4 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2457 benjamin.peterson patch Ellipsis not copyable 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2460 rhettinger patch python.exe slowing my system 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2462 FireSnake python.exe slowing my system 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2463 tiran sphinx-quickstart.py still creates makefile even if user tells i 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2465 georg.brandl patch izip fixer generates incorrect import statement 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2468 David Wolever Fix build error in unicodeobject.c UCS4 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2469 amaury.forgeotdarc patch fset not working 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2474 georg.brandl optparse docs should mention %default being new in 2.4 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2476 georg.brandl decimal.Decimal( 0 ).sqrt() fails 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2478 facundobatista Decimal(unicode) 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2482 marketdickinson Cosmetic patch for warning "unused variable" 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2484 georg.brandl patch, patch Assertion failure in datetime.strftime() 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2490 georg.brandl tokenize doesn't handle __future__.unicode_literals correctly 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2495 amaury.forgeotdarc test_no_refcycle_through_target sometimes fails in test_threadin 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2496 jyasskin patch Add enum() example for named tuples 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue2502 amaury.forgeotdarc patch provide a documented serialization func 2362 days http://bugs.python.org/issue467384 gvanrossum default index for __getslice__ is not sys.maxint 1481 days http://bugs.python.org/issue908441 georg.brandl Heap class for heapq module 1107 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1162363 rhettinger patch compiler package: "global a; a=5" 964 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1251748 pitrou patch import dynamic library bug? 954 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1261390 georg.brandl bsddb: segfault on db.associate call with Txn and large data 793 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1413192 jcea bisect should support a custom comparison function 739 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1451588 rhettinger custom comparison function for bisect module 724 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1462228 rhettinger bisect on presorted list 460 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1619060 rhettinger Add triangular distribution to random 374 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1681432 rhettinger patch Duplicate "preferences" menu item/Tk Aqua 8.4.14 359 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1691411 georg.brandl patch audioop module - request to add a note 344 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1700821 georg.brandl slice type is unhashable 291 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1733184 belopolsky re.findall hangs python completely 281 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1737127 georg.brandl struni: test_urllib2, test_cookielib 238 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1762940 loewis patch Top Issues Most Discussed (10) ______________________________ 15 speedup loops with better bytecode 6 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue2459 10 Merge 2.6 ACKS with 3.0 ACKS 7 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue2390 8 compiler package: "global a; a=5" 964 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1251748 7 test_no_refcycle_through_target sometimes fails in test_threadi 1 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue2496 7 parser support for future import of unicode_strings 3 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue2477 7 Adding __iter__ to class Values of module optparse 7 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue2444 7 Semi autogenerated _types module 107 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1605 7 test_xmlrpc is still flakey 123 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue1503 6 No way to disable socket timeouts in httplib, etc. 1 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue2451 6 uninitialized access to va_list 7 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue2443

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Windows build bot failure
by Christian Heimes 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

Some Windows build bots can't compile openssl. The MS assembler fails to assemble a file. I *think* the issue can be fixed by using nasm32 instead of masm. Christian ml /Cp /coff /c /Cx /Zi /Focrypto\sha\asm\s1_win32.obj .\crypto\sha\asm\s1_win32.asm Microsoft (R) Macro Assembler Version 7.10.6030 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Assembling: .\crypto\sha\asm\s1_win32.asm ml /Cp /coff /c /Cx /Zi /Focrypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.obj .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm Microsoft (R) Macro Assembler Version 7.10.6030 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Assembling: .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(29) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(30) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(31) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(32) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(35) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(36) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(37) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(38) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(125) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(138) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(151) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(154) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(155) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(156) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(278) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(279) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(280) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(281) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(282) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(283) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(284) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(285) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(286) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(287) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(288) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD .\crypto\sha\asm\sha512-sse2.asm(289) : error A2006: undefined symbol : XMMWORD NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'ml' : return code '0x1' Stop. Executing ms\d32.mak failed 2 Build log was saved at "file://s:\buildbots\python\2.5.nelson-windows\build\PCbuild\x86-temp-debug\_ssl\BuildLog.htm" _ssl - 27 error(s), 0 warning(s)

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How we can get rid of eggs for 2.6 and beyond
by Phillip J. Eby 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

So, after having some time to absorb the Python-Dev threads about setuptools, bootstrap, and all the rest, I think I see an opportunity to let people route around the "damage" of eggs, while still making it possible for the people who want to use easy_install or to put dependencies in their setup.py to get what they want, too. (And without them needing to install eggs, either.) At the same time, we can address the issues that remain around uninstalling packages, system vs. user packages, PYTHONPATH and site.py woes, and really pretty much every other complaint I've heard in the last few days about setuptools stomping on other people's stuff. (Even Paul's Windows issues, hopefully.) Now, you might be asking, "Okay, so why are you telling me about this? Why not just go fix setuptools?" Well, I *can't*. Not without some help from Python-Dev and the Distutils-SIG, to create an updated standard for installed package metadata, by updating PEP 262 ("A Database of Installed Python Packages") to include input from the system packaging folks, support for namespace packages, and support for setuptools-compatible dependency information. What's that got to do with anything? Well, without it, setuptools can't support uninstall or conflict management without using eggs to compartmentalize the installed files. And because it has to use eggs to do *that*, it has to munge .pth files and install its own site.py when installing to PYTHONPATH. All of this ugliness follows directly from the absence of a PEP 262-style installation database. Sure, setuptools could create its own version of this, and I almost did that four years ago. (If you look at the "open issues" part of PEP 262, you'll see my comments from back then.) I decided not to for two reasons: first, the distutils didn't support it yet, so it didn't help for conflict detection and avoidance in the real world at that point. Second, there were no uninstall tools for it, so I'd have had to write one myself. (Zed's "easy_f'ing_uninstall" to the contrary, it ain't easy, and I have an aversion to deleting stuff on people's systems without knowing what will break. There's a big difference between them typing 'rm -rf' themselves, and me doing it.) However, if tools exist and are distributed for such a "database", and *everybody* agrees to use it as an officially-blessed standard, then it should be possible for setuptools to co-exist with that framework, and we're all happy campers. In particular, the "installing eggs sucks" camp should be happy, because it'll be possible for me (or anyone else) to write a version of easy_install that doesn't install eggs any more, and setuptools-based packages can go back to having "setup.py install" install things the old way by default. So, to accomplish this, we (for some value of "we") need to: 1. Hash out consensus around what changes or enhancements are needed to PEP 262, to resolve the previously-listed open issues, those that have come up since (namespace packages, dependency specifications, canonical name/version forms), and anything else that comes up. 2. Update or replace the implementation as appropriate, and modify the distutils to support it in Python 2.6 and beyond. And "support it" means, "ensure that 'install' and *all* bdist commands update the database". The bdist_rpm, bdist_wininst, and bdist_msi commands, even bdist_dumb. (This should probably also include the add/remove programs stuff in the Windows case.) 3. Create a document for system packagers referencing the PEP and introducing them to what/why/how of the standard, in case they weren't one of the original participants in creating this. It will probably take some non-trivial work to do all this for Python 2.6, but it's probably possible, if we start now. I don't think it's critical to have an uninstall tool distributed with 2.6, as long as there's a reasonable way to bootstrap its installation later. Questions, comments... volunteers? :)

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Commit access request
by Benjamin Peterson 27 Mar '08

27 Mar '08

Hi Python devs, I have been contributing to since December. (See me first issue on the tracker, #1828; it was a major learning experience.) :P In that time, I have contributed many patches and actively participated on this list. This will enable me to help triage bugs on the tracker, something I've been wanting to help with. I'm willing to field questions. -- Thanks for your consideration, Benjamin Peterson

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the release gods are angry at python
by Neal Norwitz 27 Mar '08

27 Mar '08

The next releases of 2.6/3.0 are planned for April 2, just over a week from now. There is much work that needs to be done. The buildbots are in a pretty sad state and the gods are seeing too much red. http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/ http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/ See my other mail that discusses the stable buildbots. The criteria for release is that all the stable buildbots are passing all the tests. So we really gotta get these green before Barry notices. You don't want to see Barry angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry. I propose a code chill for new features. Changes to doc and tests can continue as usual. However, only submit a new feature *after* you fix a broken test first. If we have to get draconian, we can start breaking fingers when you break a test just like we do at work. :-) Specifically tests that need some TLC are: * test_winsound - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/x86%20XP-3%20trunk/builds/1166/st… * test_threading - test_no_refcycle_through_target - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/x86%20XP-3%20trunk/builds/1166/st… * test_socket deadlocks and times out - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/x86%20W2k8%20trunk/builds/210/ste… * test_ssl deadlocks and times out - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/S-390%20Debian%20trunk/builds/255/st… * test_xmlrpc transient socket errors - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/g4%20osx.4%20trunk/builds/3101/st… * test_mailbox - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/stable/x86%20XP-3%203.0/builds/723/step-… * test_asynchat - http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/alpha%20Tru64%205.1%20trunk/builds/2… Hopefully test_timeout is fixed, but that might be flaky too. There have been other tests that have also been flaky like test_asynchat, test_smtplib, test_ssl, test_urllib2net, test_urllibnet, test_xmlrpc_net and some of the tests that use networking. These all need to be fixed so the tests are 100% reliable and only fail when there is a real error. There are currently no release blocker issues: http://bugs.python.org/issue?%40columns=title&%40columns=id&%40sort=activit… There are 48 critical issues: http://bugs.python.org/issue?%40columns=title&%40columns=id&%40sort=activit… If you believe any issue should block the release, set the priority to release blocker and assign it to me (nnorwitz). Many of the critical issues are those that require 2to3 fixers. These can be checked in as they are written. Be sure to test them thoroughly and try to think of all the conditions that could possibly cause the fixer to fail or do the wrong thing. Right now, I don't know of any reason to hold up the release other than the failing tests. n

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