Mailman 3 November 2009 - Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?
by Steven D'Aprano 14 Nov '09

14 Nov '09

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:27:48 am Ludvig Ericson wrote: > On 12 nov 2009, at 14:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:44:32 pm Ludvig Ericson wrote: > >> Why are there comments on PyPI? Moreso, why are there comments > >> which I cannot control as a package author on my very own > >> packages? That's just absurd. > > > > No, what's absurd is thinking that the act of publishing software > > somehow gives you the right to demand control over what others say > > about your software. > > ... on my own package's page. It's your package. It's the community's page about your package. I think of PyPI as a community-owned noticeboard. Its primary purpose is to allow the community to find good packages -- the benefit to the community is why it exists, not the benefit to the author of the package. In my opinion, the community is best served by a good comment/review system, one which avoids the worst trolling, and allows authors the right of reply, but does not allow authors to censor inconvenient but honest reviews. -- Steven D'Aprano

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External module tests skipping on Windows build slaves?
by David Bolen 14 Nov '09

14 Nov '09

While working with the Windows (and now Windows 7) build slaves I've been noticing that a number of "unexpected" test skips are occurring, mostly for external modules like ssl, bz2, tk, etc... However, I know for a fact that those libraries are being fetched and built, so I was a little perplexed that they were being skipped for testing. I don't think it's a regression due to the recent slave work, but something that may have been happening for a while, if not always. Some manual testing I did would seem to indicate that there's a problem related to loading the right MS CRT when loading these modules. But they seem to reference both debug and non-debug versions, so even if I copy the CRT DLLs (from the SxS tre) into pcbuild manually, then I get a CRT assertion about a bad initialization. I suspect this wouldn't be a problem when everything is built in release mode. I would have sworn they used to get run, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps I'm remembering older Python releases with VS.NET 2003, since the MSVC9 versions of the CRT and the SXS stuff was new with VS 2008 I think. Does anyone happen to know if these tests have ever run recently on the Windows build slaves? -- David

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 76, Issue 114
by wa2n39＠gmail.com 14 Nov '09

14 Nov '09

Please don't send me again this email ------Pesan Asli------ Dari:python-dev-request@python.org Pengirim:python-dev-bounces+wa2n39=gmail.com@python.org Ke:python-dev@python.org Balas Ke:python-dev@python.org Perihal:Python-Dev Digest, Vol 76, Issue 114 Terkirim:13 Nov 2009 03:00 Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to python-dev(a)python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to python-dev-request(a)python.org You can reach the person managing the list at python-dev-owner(a)python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Python-Dev digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries' (Masklinn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:50:49 +0100 From: Masklinn <masklinn(a)masklinn.net> To: Python-Dev <python-dev(a)python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries' Message-ID: <45186ACD-29BA-4D5E-9ADB-25632021A539(a)masklinn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 13 Nov 2009, at 11:36 , Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > I think the recent postings on "CPAN for Python" in this list also stems > from similar thoughts. No. The CPAN for Python messages (in and out of the list) are about third-party packages and a better way to manage (and a better experience of installing) those. Think Ruby, it has a significant stdlib (though not as extensive as Python's), but it also has gems (and the `gem` CLI util). Or Haskell, which also has a significant stdlib (GHC does anyway) but also has cabal and cabal-install. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev End of Python-Dev Digest, Vol 76, Issue 114 ******************************************* Sent from my BlackBerry® powered by Sinyal Kuat INDOSAT

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decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs
by Stefan Krah 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

Hi, in a (misguided) bugreport (http://bugs.python.org/issue7279) I was questioning the reasons for allowing NaN comparisons with == and != rather than raising InvalidOperation. I think two main issues emerge from the brief discussion: 1. Should the comparison operators follow the 'compare' function from the standard? The standard says: "An implementation may use this operation [compare] under the covers to implement a closed set of comparison operations (greater than, equal, etc.) if desired. It need not, in this case, expose the compare operation itself." So, I'd say that this supports following 'compare' as closely as possible. In fact the operators <, <=, >, >= already follow 'compare-signal' in their behavior (they raise for any NaN operand). 2. What is the use of == and != outside the decimal scope? Mark mentions that Python uses == to test for set and dict memberships, but that you cannot put decimal NaNs into sets: 'TypeError: Cannot hash a NaN value' I want to add that Decimal('NaN') == Decimal('NaN') gives False, which should somewhat limit the uses of == for NaNs outside the decimal realm anyway. Are there cases where == and != are actually needed to give a result for NaNs? Stefan Krah

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Summary of Python tracker Issues
by Python tracker 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (11/06/09 - 11/13/09) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 2491 open (+27) / 16645 closed (+14) / 19136 total (+41) Open issues with patches: 993 Average duration of open issues: 684 days. Median duration of open issues: 442 days. Open Issues Breakdown open 2455 (+27) pending 35 ( +0) Issues Created Or Reopened (42) _______________________________ test_debuglevel from test_telnetlib.py fails 11/06/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue6748 reopened r.david.murray patch, buildbot json module apparently fails regression found at http://json.org 11/06/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7274 created DougShawhan CoverageResult fails to merge input file with non-empty callers 11/06/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7275 created glinsvad patch UnboundLocalError scoping problem with nested functions 11/06/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7276 created olau online docs out-of-sync with sources and distributed .chm files 11/07/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7277 created gagenellina decimal.py: New instance vs. new reference 11/07/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7278 created skrah decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs 11/07/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7279 created skrah PCBuild instruction says to use nasmw.exe but it no longer exist 11/07/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7280 created blep patch copysign() with NaN arguments on OpenSolaris 11/07/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7281 created skrah RLocks leak references when used in raw threads 11/08/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7282 created pitrou patch test_site failure when .local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages hasn't 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7283 created pitrou optparse - display version in usage by default 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7284 created techtonik multiprocessing module, example code error 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7285 created hsmtkk patch odd exec() behavior or documentation 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7286 created pmawhorter import hook demo does not work 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7287 created blep Detect improper leading whitespace in C files for Vim 11/08/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7288 created brett.cannon easy bad import in redemo.py script in v3.1 11/08/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7289 created alan.gauld(a)btinternet.com Update 'how do I set a global variable' faq entry 11/09/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7290 created r.david.murray patch urllib2 cannot handle https with proxy requiring auth 11/09/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7291 created tsujikawa patch Multiprocessing Joinable race condition? 11/09/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7292 created jonathan test_msvc9compiler test_reg_class failure on new Windows box 11/09/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7293 created db3l MSDN URL in subprocess.py is incorrect 11/09/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7294 created eric.smith easy test_tarfile uses a hardcoded file name 11/09/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7295 created pitrou patch OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum on mips64 11/09/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7296 created jasper --spam-- 11/10/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7297 created brandon.dixon reversed(range(x, -1, -1)) is empty when x > 1 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7298 created ledave123 patch setup.py install doesn't honor PYTHONUSERBASE 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7299 created doko patch, patch Unicode arguments in str.format() 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7300 created doerwalter Add environment variable $PYTHONWARNINGS 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7301 created barry Wrong link to Python Language Mapping Specification 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7302 created efrerich pkgutil lacks documentation for useful functions 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7303 created englabenny email.message.Message.set_payload and as_string given charset 'u 11/10/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7304 created r.david.murray urllib2.urlopen() segfault using SSL on Solaris 11/11/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7305 created rtarnell Patch - skip winsound tests if no default sound is configured 11/11/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7306 created brian.curtin patch test_distutils failure under Windows 7 11/11/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7307 created pitrou Named group regex error 11/11/09 CLOSED http://bugs.python.org/issue7308 created pythonmeister crasher in str(Exception()) 11/12/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7309 created arigo Unhelpful __repr__() in os.environ 11/12/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7310 created kjohnson Bug on regexp of HTMLParser 11/12/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7311 created pluskid Run some tests in a loop until failure 11/12/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7312 created pitrou patch 2to3 fails when source file starts with BOM 11/13/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7313 created gagenellina test_multiprocessing hangs on Windows 7 64 bit 11/13/09 http://bugs.python.org/issue7314 created krisvale 64bit Issues Now Closed (31) ______________________ CGIHTTPRequestHandler.run_cgi() does not run on Windows if sys.e 769 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1235 orsenthil patch Management of KeyboardInterrupt in cmd.py 710 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1294 gvanrossum patch RLock's are SLOW 530 days http://bugs.python.org/issue3001 pitrou patch Real segmentation fault handler 406 days http://bugs.python.org/issue3999 Rhamphoryncus patch No universal newline support for compile() when using bytes 337 days http://bugs.python.org/issue4628 benjamin.peterson Auto-detect indentation in C source in vimrc 223 days http://bugs.python.org/issue5611 brett.cannon patch Subclassing property doesn't preserve the auto __doc__ behavior 195 days http://bugs.python.org/issue5890 moriyoshi patch, needs review test_codecs fails when ran after test_zipimport and test_mailbox 114 days http://bugs.python.org/issue6551 pitrou patch test_debuglevel from test_telnetlib.py fails 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue6748 jackdied patch, buildbot round(x) gives wrong result for large odd integers 34 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7070 mark.dickinson easy Add looping capability to regrtest 29 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7134 pitrou importlib/_bootstrap.py write_bytecode raises an IOError if it c 16 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7187 brett.cannon patch test_multiprocessing crashes under Windows when run in verbose m 18 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7197 pitrou patch 2to3 execfile conversion changes behavior 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7268 gagenellina patch Tests for synchronization primitives 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7270 pitrou patch Typo in turtle module documentation. 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7271 georg.brandl json module apparently fails regression found at http://json.org 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7274 DougShawhan UnboundLocalError scoping problem with nested functions 3 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7276 r.david.murray online docs out-of-sync with sources and distributed .chm files 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7277 r.david.murray decimal.py: New instance vs. new reference 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7278 rhettinger decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7279 mark.dickinson copysign() with NaN arguments on OpenSolaris 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7281 mark.dickinson RLocks leak references when used in raw threads 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7282 pitrou patch bad import in redemo.py script in v3.1 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7289 benjamin.peterson Update 'how do I set a global variable' faq entry 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7290 r.david.murray patch MSDN URL in subprocess.py is incorrect 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7294 eric.smith easy test_tarfile uses a hardcoded file name 2 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7295 pitrou patch --spam-- 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7297 rhettinger test_distutils failure under Windows 7 1 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7307 amaury.forgeotdarc Named group regex error 0 days http://bugs.python.org/issue7308 mark.dickinson 'compile' built-in function failures when missing EOL 1293 days http://bugs.python.org/issue1479099 benjamin.peterson Top Issues Most Discussed (10) ______________________________ 19 Enable short float repr() on Solaris/x86 208 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue5792 10 RLock's are SLOW 530 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue3001 7 reversed(range(x, -1, -1)) is empty when x > 1 3 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue7298 7 test_multiprocessing dictionary changed size errors and hang 40 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue7060 6 OverflowError: signed integer is greater than maximum on mips64 4 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue7296 6 CGIHTTPRequestHandler.run_cgi() does not run on Windows if sys. 769 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1235 5 Management of KeyboardInterrupt in cmd.py 710 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue1294 4 Run some tests in a loop until failure 1 days open http://bugs.python.org/issue7312 4 copysign() with NaN arguments on OpenSolaris 2 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue7281 4 test_debuglevel from test_telnetlib.py fails 0 days closed http://bugs.python.org/issue6748

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standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'
by Sriram Srinivasan 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

> Sriram, > > Please take this discussion to catalog-sig - python-dev isn't the place > (the fact that many of us didn't immediately know the *right* place for > the discussion indicates where PyPI sits on our personal active level of > interest). > > You should find more interested (and knowledgable) folks and catalog-sig. > > Regards, > Nick. > sorry for posting the link in a lone post, i must have posted it with my previous post, and the theme is how to make the standard libraries state-of-the-art and i many feel it must be in py-dev as it is directly connected with the development of python. As it required some comparison, i compared pypi with the ruby's *rubyforge*. in fact what i found astonishing is that there are a lot of libraries (3rd party) available in packaged forms. which is a very good sign, the problem is there is no sorted out list for libraries and software in pypi. *rubyforge* is like a pypi for *libraries* (standard and 3rd party) i guess some misplaced topics such as [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*? , [Python-Dev] PyPI front page are also getting alarming responses in the py-dev list. including yours, ;) As Anand says requiring a new update of battery v1.5 requires update of python/flashlight which only occurs every release is the manin senario. I would also like to add that what if a company doesn't need the batteries that you give at the first place, they have developed their own batteries and want to use them(or use some from the default with theit own), also wants to use the same flashlight/python system? - it would be *easy* only if the batteries included had a feature of being removed. -- Regards, Sriram

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Fwd: standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'
by Sriram Srinivasan 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

Sriram, > > Please take this discussion to catalog-sig - python-dev isn't the place > (the fact that many of us didn't immediately know the *right* place for > the discussion indicates where PyPI sits on our personal active level of > interest). > > You should find more interested (and knowledgable) folks and catalog-sig. > > Regards, > Nick. > sorry for posting the link in a lone post, i must have posted it with my previous post, and the theme is how to make the standard libraries state-of-the-art and i many feel it must be in py-dev as it is directly connected with the development of python. As it required some comparison, i compared pypi with the ruby's *rubyforge*. in fact what i found astonishing is that there are a lot of libraries (3rd party) available in packaged forms. which is a very good sign, the problem is there is no sorted out list for libraries and software in pypi. *rubyforge* is like a pypi for *libraries* (standard and 3rd party) i guess some misplaced topics such as [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*? , [Python-Dev] PyPI front page are also getting alarming responses in the py-dev list. including yours, ;) As Anand says requiring a new update of battery v1.5 requires update of python/flashlight which only occurs every release is the manin senario. I would also like to add that what if a company doesn't need the batteries that you give at the first place, they have developed their own batteries and want to use them(or use some from the default with theit own), also wants to use the same flashlight/python system? - it would be *easy* only if the batteries included had a feature of being removed. -- Regards, Sriram.

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Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?
by Henning von Bargen 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

mode = "python-dev reader" Please excuse me if I'm wrong here, but I think python-dev just isn't the right place to discuss this topic, because it's about 3rd party packages and it's got nothing to do with the development *of the python language itself*, but generated a lot of traffic. mode = "package developer" I personally added a PyPI entry for my open source project just because it's there and it's a more or less standard, like CPAN in the Perl world, so I hoped others would perhaps find it there. On the other hand, if I am searching for software myself, I don't look at PyPI - I just use G**gle. I don't think PyPI needs any new features. For the "developer's social web" that support the feature, there are other good places, for example take a look at http://www.ohloh.net Henning

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PEP 382 status
by Tarek Ziadé 13 Nov '09

13 Nov '09

Hi, I was wondering what's the status of PEP 382. Is anyone (MvL?) is going to start to work on its implementation for Python 2.7/3.2 inclusion ? Regards Tarek

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FYI: LWN article on 2.x, 3.x, and the moratorium
by A.M. Kuchling 12 Nov '09

12 Nov '09

FYI: I've written an article for Linux Weekly News on the moratorium & related issues. The article is subscribers-only for a week, but here's a free link: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/361266/ef88bdbed5369800/ If you find this sort of thing useful/interesting, please consider subscribing to LWN. --amk

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Python-Dev November 2009