Mailman 3 July 2012 - Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 108, Issue 14
by Ryan Paullin 12 Jul '12

12 Jul '12

looks like theres no forgiveness except for dj yoda On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:00 AM, <python-dev-request(a)python.org> wrote: > Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to > python-dev(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > python-dev-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > python-dev-owner(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Python-Dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: How to recruit open-source contributors ? The Story of > Data (Steve Holden) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:54:33 -0500 > From: Steve Holden <steve(a)holdenweb.com> > To: Arc Riley <arcriley(a)gmail.com> > Cc: python-dev(a)python.org > Subject: [Python-Dev] Fwd: How to recruit open-source contributors ? > The Story of Data > Message-ID: <44E4E015-4C35-4265-A4EF-51B2D3A64086(a)holdenweb.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Interesting article about Gentoo's approach to developer recruitment from > GSoC: > > > http://redmonk.com/dberkholz/2012/07/10/how-to-recruit-open-source-contribu… > > S > -- > Steve Holden steve(a)holdenweb.com, Holden Web, LLC http://holdenweb.com/ > Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/ > Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/ > Next: DjangoCon US Sep 6-8, Washington DC http://djangocon.us/ > > > >

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Testing 3.3 framework builds on OS X
by Marc Abramowitz 11 Jul '12

11 Jul '12

Anyone know how to build and run tests on an OS X build with —enable-framework, without installing the framework? I want to test that something works in my tree without polluting /Library/Frameworks with stuff that could mess up future tests. I've been mucking around with DYLD_FRAMEWORK_PATH but not having much luck. If I build with ./configure --enable-framework --with-dtrace && make and use DYLD_FRAMEWORK_PATH=. then I suspect it's still loading from /Library/Frameworks, because my tests fail in a way that suggests it's not finding the new bits in my working directory. If I build with ./configure --enable-framework=. --with-dtrace && make and use DYLD_FRAMEWORK_PATH=., then it fails with: dyld: Library not loaded: ./Python.framework/Versions/3.3/Python presumably because ./Python.framework doesn't have any .dylib's or .so's. Thanks, Marc

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 108, Issue 7
by Ryan Paullin 10 Jul '12

10 Jul '12

thanks for the reply hastings ive been working on a loopback interface its done On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:00 AM, <python-dev-request(a)python.org> wrote: > Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to > python-dev(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > python-dev-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > python-dev-owner(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Python-Dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GitHub mirror (Was: Bitbucket mirror?) (martin(a)v.loewis.de) > 2. Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] itertools.chunks(iterable, > size, fill=None)) (anatoly techtonik) > 3. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Mark Lawrence) > 4. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Stefan Behnel) > 5. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Paul Boddie) > 6. EuroPython 2012 Language Summit is Canceled. (Larry Hastings) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:27:02 +0200 > From: martin(a)v.loewis.de > To: python-dev(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] GitHub mirror (Was: Bitbucket mirror?) > Message-ID: > <20120705202702.Horde.Yh-RBqGZi1VP9dx2H7Nj-nA(a)webmail.df.eu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes > > >> You won't get any changes in to CPython by creating pull requests. We > >> use http://bugs.python.org/ for that, sorry. > > > > Question -- is there a reason to abide by this rule for docs? That is, > if we > > could get a sympathetic core dev to look at pull requests for docs as > part of > > a streamlined process, would it cause problems? > > How do you communicate a "pull request"? On bitbucket, there is a > "pull request" > UI resulting in a tracker item being generated (and an email being sent), > but > hg.python.org doesn't have a notion of pull requests. Of course, you could > use any communication means (email, telephone call, carrier pigeon) to > request > a pull from a "sympathetic core dev". > > > (What I'm really asking is whether or the bugs.python.org process is > > considered critical for potentially minor doc changes and additions.) > > The sympathetic core dev is mostly free to bypass any submission process > initially; commits that bypass established procedures will likely be > questioned > only after the fact. > > In the specific case, I'd be worried to verify that the submitter has > provided > a contributor form. That's easy to do in the bug tracker, but difficult to > do > in an offline pull request. Of course, for a really minor doc change > (e.g. typo > fixes), no contrib form is necessary. > > Regards, > Martin > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:41:29 +0300 > From: anatoly techtonik <techtonik(a)gmail.com> > To: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml(a)behnel.de> > Cc: python-ideas(a)python.org, python-dev(a)python.org > Subject: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) > Message-ID: > <CAPkN8x+A-OYWNLNKDH= > 6GnQn+o_Tb3LMnimHYs9zkYmWR1GTgA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml(a)behnel.de> wrote: > > anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36: > >> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>> From Raymond's first message on http://bugs.python.org/issue6021 , add > >>> grouper: > >>> > >>> "This has been rejected before. > >> > >> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that > >> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that > >> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting. > > > > The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even spell > > them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions > > and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know > > what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark > > "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of > > arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to the > > same result as it did before, often several times before. > > Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others > time? If people don't enjoy repeating themselves over and over - there > is a bloody wiki. What should happen to people to start extracting > gems of knowledge from piles of dusty sheets called list "archives" > for others to admire. > > No, it is easier to say "it was already discussed many times", "why > don't you Google yourself", "so far you're only complaining", etc. If > people can't find anything - why everybody thinks they are ignorant > and lazy. Even if it so, why nobody thinks that maybe that bloody > Xapian index is dead again for a bloody amount of moons nobody knows > why and how many exactly? Why nobody thinks that lazy coders can also > help with development? Maybe that laziness is the primary reason some > major groups actually prefer Python to Java, C++ and other more > interesting languages (such as PHP) when it comes to typing? Make it > easy and the patches will follow. Answers like "this was discussed > before" don't make it easy to understand, and leaving users rereading > old 19xx archives that people don't reread themselves will likely make > users bounce and never (NEVER!) come up with some proposal again. An > "organic" way to keep traffic low. > > Miscommunication is a bad experience for users, bad experience for > developers, everybody is annoyed and as a result such nice language as > Python loses points on TIOBE (and convenient chunk() functions to > munch-munch on the sequence data). > > Wheew. :-F > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:55:09 +0100 > From: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy(a)yahoo.co.uk> > To: python-dev(a)python.org > Cc: python-ideas(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) > Message-ID: <jt4re5$3gs$1(a)dough.gmane.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 05/07/2012 20:41, anatoly techtonik wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml(a)behnel.de> > wrote: > >> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36: > >>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>>> From Raymond's first message on http://bugs.python.org/issue6021 , > add > >>>> grouper: > >>>> > >>>> "This has been rejected before. > >>> > >>> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that > >>> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that > >>> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting. > >> > >> The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even > spell > >> them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions > >> and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know > >> what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark > >> "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of > >> arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to > the > >> same result as it did before, often several times before. > > > > Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others > > time? If people don't enjoy repeating themselves over and over - there > > is a bloody wiki. What should happen to people to start extracting > > gems of knowledge from piles of dusty sheets called list "archives" > > for others to admire. > > > > No, it is easier to say "it was already discussed many times", "why > > don't you Google yourself", "so far you're only complaining", etc. If > > people can't find anything - why everybody thinks they are ignorant > > and lazy. Even if it so, why nobody thinks that maybe that bloody > > Xapian index is dead again for a bloody amount of moons nobody knows > > why and how many exactly? Why nobody thinks that lazy coders can also > > help with development? Maybe that laziness is the primary reason some > > major groups actually prefer Python to Java, C++ and other more > > interesting languages (such as PHP) when it comes to typing? Make it > > easy and the patches will follow. Answers like "this was discussed > > before" don't make it easy to understand, and leaving users rereading > > old 19xx archives that people don't reread themselves will likely make > > users bounce and never (NEVER!) come up with some proposal again. An > > "organic" way to keep traffic low. > > > > Miscommunication is a bad experience for users, bad experience for > > developers, everybody is annoyed and as a result such nice language as > > Python loses points on TIOBE (and convenient chunk() functions to > > munch-munch on the sequence data). > > > > Wheew. :-F > > > > Can I safely assume that you are volunteering to do the work required? > > -- > Cheers. > > Mark Lawrence. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 21:58:52 +0200 > From: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml(a)behnel.de> > To: python-dev(a)python.org > Cc: python-ideas(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) > Message-ID: <jt4rlt$45k$1(a)dough.gmane.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 21:41: > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote: > >> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36: > >>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>>> From Raymond's first message on http://bugs.python.org/issue6021 , > add > >>>> grouper: > >>>> > >>>> "This has been rejected before. > >>> > >>> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that > >>> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that > >>> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting. > >> > >> The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even > spell > >> them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions > >> and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know > >> what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark > >> "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of > >> arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to > the > >> same result as it did before, often several times before. > > > > Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others > > time? > > Yes, that is exactly the question. > > It takes time to write things up nicely. I mean, once someone has pointed > out to you that this has been discussed before, you could just go, look it > up (or search for it), and then put it into a Wiki or blog post yourself, > or sum it up and send it to the mailing list as a reply. Why rely on others > to do it for you? > > Stefan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:11:46 +0200 > From: Paul Boddie <paul(a)boddie.org.uk> > To: python-dev(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] > itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) > Message-ID: <201207052311.46867.paul(a)boddie.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Stefan Behnel wrote: > > anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 21:41: > > > > > > Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others > > > time? > > > > Yes, that is exactly the question. > > > > It takes time to write things up nicely. I mean, once someone has pointed > > out to you that this has been discussed before, you could just go, look > it > > up (or search for it), and then put it into a Wiki or blog post yourself, > > or sum it up and send it to the mailing list as a reply. Why rely on > others > > to do it for you? > > To be fair, Anatoly has done quite a bit of maintenance on some of the Wiki > content around various aspects of the project, so it's not as if he's > demanding anything out of the ordinary or asking for others to do things > that > he isn't already doing in some sense. My experience is that there usually > needs to be some willingness on the other end of the transaction, and if it > takes repetition to encourage it amongst those who don't see the current > situation as a problem for them, then so be it. > > Of course, this kind of documentation activity, where one gathers together > historical decisions and the consensus from long-forgotten discussions, is > pretty thankless work. I occasionally regard it as worthwhile if only to > bring up something someone said as an inconvenient interruption in any > current discussion, but that's a pretty minimal reward for all the effort > unless one has such work as part of one's daily routine. > > Paul > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 08:47:30 +0200 > From: Larry Hastings <larry(a)hastings.org> > To: python-dev(a)python.org, python-committers(a)python.org > Subject: [Python-Dev] EuroPython 2012 Language Summit is Canceled. > Message-ID: <4FF68A02.8000500(a)hastings.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > > > I only got one more RSVP and zero topics for the docket. So let's > sprint instead. > > See you at the PyCon 2013 Language Summit, > > > //arry/ >

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Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue 15265: document the exception raised for invalid sample sizes.
by Georg Brandl 09 Jul '12

09 Jul '12

On 09.07.2012 01:02, raymond.hettinger wrote: > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/72174d8af3ba > changeset: 78015:72174d8af3ba > user: Raymond Hettinger <python(a)rcn.com> > date: Sun Jul 08 16:01:53 2012 -0700 > summary: > Issue 15265: document the exception raised for invalid sample sizes. > > files: > Doc/library/random.rst | 3 +++ > 1 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-) > > > diff --git a/Doc/library/random.rst b/Doc/library/random.rst > --- a/Doc/library/random.rst > +++ b/Doc/library/random.rst > @@ -150,6 +150,9 @@ > argument. This is especially fast and space efficient for sampling from a large > population: ``sample(range(10000000), 60)``. > > + If the sample size is larger than the population size, a :exc:``ValueError`` Should be :exc:`ValueError` (one set of quotes only). Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #15283: Updated pyvenv documentation to expand on activation.
by Antoine Pitrou 09 Jul '12

09 Jul '12

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:25:58 +0200 (CEST) vinay.sajip <python-checkins(a)python.org> wrote: > + > + Common installation tools such as ``distribute`` and ``pip`` work as > + expected with venvs - i.e. when a venv is active, they install Python > + packages into the venv without needing to be told to do so explicitly. Not exactly. They will do so if you *install* them in the venv. A system-wide distribute or pip, AFAIK, will still install packages into the system-wide locations. Also, I wonder why you are duplicating the exact same docs in two files. That's a maintenance burden. Regards Antoine.

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue 14814: The new systematic tests aren't just about error reporting any
by Nick Coghlan 09 Jul '12

09 Jul '12

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy(a)udel.edu> wrote: > On 7/8/2012 9:14 AM, nick.coghlan wrote: > If you want to report both errors, when present: I don't really - when there are multiple things wrong with the address, ipaddress just reports the first one it notices (e.g. IPv4Address("google.com") will complain about the lack of "." separators rather than the fact that "google" and "com" are not valid octets). This was just a case where I started to reorder the checks to do the faster one first, and then realised it was more user friendly to check the other way around (since the success case will always include both checks, it only makes a difference to the speed of rejection of some invalid cases). Most of the other validation checks have a more obvious suitable order (for example, there's no reason to start checking individual parts if we can't even split the parts up appropriately). >> +class BaseTestCase(unittest.TestCase): >> # One big change in ipaddress over the original ipaddr module is >> # error reporting that tries to assume users *don't know the rules* >> # for what constitutes an RFC compliant IP address > > > Good assumption. There *will* be people who learn by trial and error. *cough* It's conceivable I started down this path due to using the REPL for exploration while making an initial attempt at writing method and data attribute docs over the weekend. I'm firmly in the category of IPv4 network programming engineers with next to no IPv6 experience :) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan(a)gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia

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Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Fix 5931 - Python runtime hardcoded in wsgiref.simple_server - Now it specifies
by Georg Brandl 08 Jul '12

08 Jul '12

On 07.07.2012 23:29, senthil.kumaran wrote: > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/34e705fa4da4 > changeset: 77983:34e705fa4da4 > user: Senthil Kumaran <senthil(a)uthcode.com> > date: Sat Jul 07 14:29:58 2012 -0700 > summary: > Fix 5931 - Python runtime hardcoded in wsgiref.simple_server - Now it specifies an implementation specific term. > > files: > Doc/library/wsgiref.rst | 5 +++++ > Lib/test/test_wsgiref.py | 10 ++++++++-- > Lib/wsgiref/simple_server.py | 3 ++- > Misc/NEWS | 3 +++ > 4 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) > > > diff --git a/Doc/library/wsgiref.rst b/Doc/library/wsgiref.rst > --- a/Doc/library/wsgiref.rst > +++ b/Doc/library/wsgiref.rst > @@ -609,6 +609,11 @@ > as :class:`BaseCGIHandler` and :class:`CGIHandler`) that are not HTTP origin > servers. > > + .. versionchanged:: 3.3 > + > + The term "Python" is replaced with implementation specific term like > + "CPython", "Jython" etc. Please fix the markup: no blank line, but indented. E.g. .. versionchanged:: 3.3 Blah, blah. Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.2): Fix issue14826 - make urllib.request.Request quoted url consistent with
by Antoine Pitrou 08 Jul '12

08 Jul '12

> > + def test_quote_url(self): > + Request = urllib.request.Request > + request = Request("http://www.python.org/foo bar") > + self.assertEqual(request.full_url, "http://www.python.org/foo%20bar") > + This means someone who already quotes URL will get a double escaping, right? Regards Antoine.

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Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue 14814: Correctly return NotImplemented from ipaddress._BaseNetwork.__eq__
by Antoine Pitrou 07 Jul '12

07 Jul '12

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 15:08:42 +0200 (CEST) nick.coghlan <python-checkins(a)python.org> wrote: > > def __eq__(self, other): > - if not isinstance(other, _BaseNetwork): > - raise TypeError('%s and %s are not of the same type' % ( > - self, other)) > - return (self._version == other._version and > - self.network_address == other.network_address and > - int(self.netmask) == int(other.netmask)) > + try: > + return (self._version == other._version and > + self.network_address == other.network_address and > + int(self.netmask) == int(other.netmask)) > + except AttributeError: > + return NotImplemented I think the isinstance() test was correct. If you have an object which duck-types IPNetwork, you probably want its __eq__ to be called, not yours. Regards Antoine.

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Problem with hg hook for devguide repo?
by Ned Deily 07 Jul '12

07 Jul '12

pushing to ssh://pyhg/devguide searching for changes remote: adding changesets remote: adding manifests remote: adding file changes remote: added 1 changesets with 1 changes to 1 files remote: sent email to roundup at report(a)bugs.python.org remote: notified python-checkins(a)python.org of incoming changeset bbe197bf57a1 remote: 1 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved remote: sh: 1: source: not found remote: sh: 1: sphinx-build: not found remote: warning: incoming.sphinxbuild hook exited with status 127 -- Ned Deily, nad(a)acm.org

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