Python-Dev August 2015

python-dev@python.org

68 participants
44 discussions

by R. David Murray

Just so people aren't caught unawares, it is very unlikely that I will have time to be the final editor on "What's New for 3.5" they way I was for 3.3 and 3.4. I've tried to encourage people to keep What's New up to date, but *someone* should make a final editing pass. Ideally they'd do at least the research Serhiy did last year on checking that there's a mention for all of the versionadded and versionchanged 3.5's in the docs. Even better would be to review the NEWS and/or commit history...but *that* is a really big job these days.... --David

4 years, 9 months

tp_finalize vs tp_del sematics

by Valentine Sinitsyn

Hi everybody, I'm trying to get sense of PEP-0442 [1]. Most of the looks clear, however I wasn't able to answer myself one simple question: why it wasn't possible to implement proposed CI disposal scheme on top of tp_del? Common sense suggests that tp_del and tp_finalize have different semantics. For instance, with tp_finalize there is a guarantee that the object will be in a safe state, as documented at [2]. However, tp_del is not documented, and I have only vague idea of its guarantees. Are there any? Thanks for the clarification. 1. https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0442/ 2. https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/typeobj.html -- Best regards, Valentine Sinitsyn

4 years, 10 months

Building Extensions for Python 3.5 on Windows

by Steve Dower

I've written up a long technical blog post about the compiler and CRT changes in Python 3.5, which will be of interest to those who build and distribute native extensions for Windows. http://stevedower.id.au/blog/building-for-python-3-5/ Hopefully it puts some of the changes we've made into a context where they don't just look like unnecessary pain. Feedback and discussion welcome, either on these lists or on the post itself. Cheers, Steve

4 years, 10 months

PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation

by Eric V. Smith

PEP 498 adds a new string prefix which allows simpler string formatting by embedding expressions inside string literals. The expressions are evaluated and inserted into the resulting string value: >>> import datetime >>> name = 'Fred' >>> age = 50 >>> anniversary = datetime.date(1991, 10, 12) >>> f'My name is {name}, my age next year is {age+1}, my anniversary is {anniversary:%A, %B %d, %Y}.' 'My name is Fred, my age next year is 51, my anniversary is Saturday, October 12, 1991.' There's been a lot of discussion about this on python-ideas, much of which has been incorporated in to the PEP. Now I feel it's ready for python-dev input. Note there's a companion PEP 501 which extends this idea by delaying converting the expression into a string. This allows for more control over how the expressions are converted in to strings, and allows for non-string conversions as well. I have a complete implementation of PEP 498. I'll shortly create an issue and attach the patch to it. -- Eric.

4 years, 10 months

Re: [Python-Dev] ZIP File Instead of Installer

by Steve Holden

Hi Alex, Thanks for your email, and the suggestion. A couple of things … First, as webmaster we are simply volunteers who try to accept and process feedback *about the python.org <http://python.org/> web site*. We aren’t (mostly) actively involved in the development of the language, though we are all dedicated users - most of us either don’t have tie to take part in python-dev or feel we have already put our time in. So this isn’t the best channel for the particular inout you’re making. Second, while it’s practical to put *most* of the stdlib in a zip file it may be impractical to put them *all* in there. I did some experiments (admittedly about eight years ago, so things may have changed) to enable an import mechanism that imported code from a relational database. Naturally there were modules that had to be loaded using the standard mechanisms - the ones I needed to import to enable my database imports! It’s a classical bootstrap problem. Third, your idea would need considerable expansion before being actionable: consider the fact that there are millions of downloads of Python every month. Obviously there is huge amount of engineering detail to consider before releasing anything new - if an error only occurs one time in 100,000 that will lead to a substantial number of bug reports, so the dev tend to proceed fairly carefully and with much deliberation. Fourth, I really like it that you are enthusiastic about Python, and would suggest you consider joining the python-dev mailing list. Start as a lurker, just reading what is said, and (since you are obviously thinking a lot as you learn Python) you will be surprised how much you pick up. The people on that list aren’t gods, they are just regular developers who happen to commit a lot of their time to Python’s development, and they rely on a continuous influx of new blood. So as long as you take your time getting to know the personalities involved and how the list works you are likely to find a welcome there. The day will arrive when you realize that rather to your surprise you have something to contribute. There’s also the python-ideas list and, if you are nervous about just diving straight into python-dev, there’s the python-mentor list that was specifically designed to provide a sympathetic and uncritical response to enthusiasm such as you exhibit. The caveat in all this is that as an old fart I haven’t actually been active on any of those lists for quite a while, so I am unsure how active they all are. I hope this response is helpful. I’ve invested a lot of time in trying to make the Python ecosystem one that welcomes enthusiasm and energy, and lot of other people do the same, many of them more effectively than me. It seems to me that you have both enthusiasm and energy, which is why I’ve taken the time to encourage you to put it to use. Good luck in your progress with Python. regards Steve PS: The mailing lists are all detailed on https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo> > On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:48 PM, Alex Huffstetler <superdoom1(a)outlook.com> wrote: > > I have an idea. I had a problem with installing Python because I’m not an admin. > My idea is you delete the installer and put all the files in a ZIP folder. It can make download time faster. > Also, I made the Python logo out off underscores and pipes. > If it dosen’t look right, put it somewhere on the Internet and it’ll look right. > _____________ > | . | > _______|_______ |________ > | | | > | _____________| | > | | | > |_______| _______________| > | . | > |_____________| -- Steve Holden steve(a)holdenweb.com / +44 208 289 6308 / @holdenweb

4 years, 10 months

provisional status for asyncio

by Yury Selivanov

Recently, in an asyncio related issue [1], Guido said that new features for asyncio have to wait till 3.6, since asyncio is no longer a provisional package. Later, in an off-list conversation, he suggested that this topic should be discussed on python-dev, and that it might indeed make sense to either write a new PEP for cases like this or to augment PEP 411. My opinion on this topic is that we must maintain full backwards compatibility for asyncio from 3.5.0, as it is now widely used, and there is quite a big ecosystem around it. However, asyncio is simply not mature enough to be completely feature frozen for about 2 years. For example, there is an issue [2] to add starttls support to asyncio. It is an essential feature, because some protocols start as clear text and upgrade to TLS later, for example PostgreSQL PQ3 protocol. It's very hard to implement starttls on top of asyncio, lots of code will have to be duplicated -- it's a feature that has to implemented in the asyncio core. Aside from adding new APIs, we also have to improve debugging capabilities. One example is using os.fork() from within a running event loop -- it must be avoided by all means. There are safe ways to fork in asyncio applications (and I plan to document them soon), but asyncio should raise an exception in debug mode if this happens (see issue [3]). These are just two immediate issues that I have in mind. In reality, asyncio is quite young compared to frameworks like Twisted, which had years to mature, and accumulate essential features. My proposal is to amend PEP 411 with two levels of provisional packages: Level 1: Backwards incompatible changes might be introduced in point releases. Level 2: Only backwards compatible changes can be introduced in new point releases. With the above amendments, asyncio status should be restated as a level-2 provisional package. I'm CC-ing authors of PEP 411 Nick and Eli. Thank you, Yury [1] http://bugs.python.org/issue23630 [2] http://bugs.python.org/issue23749 [3] http://bugs.python.org/issue21998

4 years, 10 months

Summary of Python tracker Issues

by Python tracker

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-08-21 - 2015-08-28) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue. Do NOT respond to this message. Issues counts and deltas: open 5042 (+29) closed 31671 (+15) total 36713 (+44) Open issues with patches: 2251 Issues opened (39) ================== #24909: Windows: subprocess.Popen: race condition for leaking inherita http://bugs.python.org/issue24909 opened by Adam Meily #24910: Windows MSIs don't have unique display names http://bugs.python.org/issue24910 opened by steve.dower #24911: Context manager of socket.socket is not documented http://bugs.python.org/issue24911 opened by zodalahtathi #24912: The type of cached objects is mutable http://bugs.python.org/issue24912 opened by serhiy.storchaka #24913: deque.index() overruns deque boundary http://bugs.python.org/issue24913 opened by JohnLeitch #24914: Python: Not just OO style but this is not mentioned on python. http://bugs.python.org/issue24914 opened by Paddy McCarthy #24915: Profile Guided Optimization improvements (better training, llv http://bugs.python.org/issue24915 opened by alecsandru.patrascu #24916: In sysconfig, don't rely on sys.version format http://bugs.python.org/issue24916 opened by takluyver #24917: time_strftime() Buffer Over-read http://bugs.python.org/issue24917 opened by JohnLeitch #24918: Docs layout bug http://bugs.python.org/issue24918 opened by reag #24920: shutil.get_terminal_size throws AttributeError http://bugs.python.org/issue24920 opened by Isaac Levy #24921: Operator precedence table in 5.15 should be highest to lowest http://bugs.python.org/issue24921 opened by Joseph Schachner #24922: assertWarnsRegex doesn't allow multiple warning messages http://bugs.python.org/issue24922 opened by sleepycal #24923: Append system paths in setup.py instead of prepending http://bugs.python.org/issue24923 opened by christopher.hogan #24924: _posixsubprocess.c: sysconf() might not be async-signal-safe http://bugs.python.org/issue24924 opened by jwilk #24925: Allow doctest to find line number of __test__ strings if forma http://bugs.python.org/issue24925 opened by r.david.murray #24927: multiprocessing.Pool hangs forever on segfault http://bugs.python.org/issue24927 opened by Jonas Obrist #24928: mock.patch.dict spoils order of items in collections.OrderedDi http://bugs.python.org/issue24928 opened by Alexander Oblovatniy #24929: _strptime.TimeRE should not enforce range in regex http://bugs.python.org/issue24929 opened by Steve Yeung #24930: test_ssl broker was fixed http://bugs.python.org/issue24930 opened by marcosptf #24931: _asdict breaks when inheriting from a namedtuple http://bugs.python.org/issue24931 opened by Samuel Isaacson #24932: Migrate _testembed to a C unit testing library http://bugs.python.org/issue24932 opened by ncoghlan #24933: socket.recv(size, MSG_TRUNC) returns more than size bytes http://bugs.python.org/issue24933 opened by Andrey Wagin #24934: django_v2 benchmark not working in Python 3.6 http://bugs.python.org/issue24934 opened by florin.papa #24935: LDSHARED is not set according when CC is set. http://bugs.python.org/issue24935 opened by yunlian #24936: Idle: handle 'raise' properly when running with subprocess (2. http://bugs.python.org/issue24936 opened by terry.reedy #24937: Multiple problems in getters & setters in capsulethunk.h http://bugs.python.org/issue24937 opened by encukou #24938: Measure if _warnings.c is still worth having http://bugs.python.org/issue24938 opened by brett.cannon #24939: Remove unicode_format.h from stringlib http://bugs.python.org/issue24939 opened by eric.smith #24940: RotatingFileHandler uses tell in non-binary mode to determine http://bugs.python.org/issue24940 opened by Ilya.Kulakov #24941: Add classproperty as builtin class http://bugs.python.org/issue24941 opened by guettli #24942: Remove domain from ipaddress.reverse_pointer property and add http://bugs.python.org/issue24942 opened by leeclemens #24945: Expose Py_TPFLAGS_ values from Python http://bugs.python.org/issue24945 opened by erik.bray #24946: Tkinter tests that fail on linux in tiling window manager http://bugs.python.org/issue24946 opened by terry.reedy #24948: Multiprocessing not timely flushing stack trace to stderr http://bugs.python.org/issue24948 opened by memeplex #24949: Identifier lookup in a multi-level package is flakey http://bugs.python.org/issue24949 opened by SegundoBob #24950: FAIL: test_expanduser when $HOME=/ http://bugs.python.org/issue24950 opened by felixonmars #24951: Idle test_configdialog fails on Fedora 23, 3.6 http://bugs.python.org/issue24951 opened by terry.reedy #24952: stack_size([size]) is actually stack_size(size=0) http://bugs.python.org/issue24952 opened by mattip Most recent 15 issues with no replies (15) ========================================== #24946: Tkinter tests that fail on linux in tiling window manager http://bugs.python.org/issue24946 #24942: Remove domain from ipaddress.reverse_pointer property and add http://bugs.python.org/issue24942 #24940: RotatingFileHandler uses tell in non-binary mode to determine http://bugs.python.org/issue24940 #24936: Idle: handle 'raise' properly when running with subprocess (2. http://bugs.python.org/issue24936 #24925: Allow doctest to find line number of __test__ strings if forma http://bugs.python.org/issue24925 #24924: _posixsubprocess.c: sysconf() might not be async-signal-safe http://bugs.python.org/issue24924 #24923: Append system paths in setup.py instead of prepending http://bugs.python.org/issue24923 #24922: assertWarnsRegex doesn't allow multiple warning messages http://bugs.python.org/issue24922 #24917: time_strftime() Buffer Over-read http://bugs.python.org/issue24917 #24916: In sysconfig, don't rely on sys.version format http://bugs.python.org/issue24916 #24910: Windows MSIs don't have unique display names http://bugs.python.org/issue24910 #24906: asyncore asynchat hanging on ssl http://bugs.python.org/issue24906 #24905: Allow incremental I/O to blobs in sqlite3 http://bugs.python.org/issue24905 #24899: Add an os.path <=> pathlib equivalence table in pathlib docs http://bugs.python.org/issue24899 #24894: iso-8859-11 missing from codecs table http://bugs.python.org/issue24894 Most recent 15 issues waiting for review (15) ============================================= #24952: stack_size([size]) is actually stack_size(size=0) http://bugs.python.org/issue24952 #24938: Measure if _warnings.c is still worth having http://bugs.python.org/issue24938 #24937: Multiple problems in getters & setters in capsulethunk.h http://bugs.python.org/issue24937 #24934: django_v2 benchmark not working in Python 3.6 http://bugs.python.org/issue24934 #24931: _asdict breaks when inheriting from a namedtuple http://bugs.python.org/issue24931 #24930: test_ssl broker was fixed http://bugs.python.org/issue24930 #24927: multiprocessing.Pool hangs forever on segfault http://bugs.python.org/issue24927 #24925: Allow doctest to find line number of __test__ strings if forma http://bugs.python.org/issue24925 #24923: Append system paths in setup.py instead of prepending http://bugs.python.org/issue24923 #24917: time_strftime() Buffer Over-read http://bugs.python.org/issue24917 #24916: In sysconfig, don't rely on sys.version format http://bugs.python.org/issue24916 #24915: Profile Guided Optimization improvements (better training, llv http://bugs.python.org/issue24915 #24913: deque.index() overruns deque boundary http://bugs.python.org/issue24913 #24909: Windows: subprocess.Popen: race condition for leaking inherita http://bugs.python.org/issue24909 #24904: Patch: add timeout to difflib SequenceMatcher ratio() and quic http://bugs.python.org/issue24904 Top 10 most discussed issues (10) ================================= #24915: Profile Guided Optimization improvements (better training, llv http://bugs.python.org/issue24915 21 msgs #23630: support multiple hosts in create_server/start_server http://bugs.python.org/issue23630 15 msgs #2786: Names in function call exception should have class names, if t http://bugs.python.org/issue2786 13 msgs #23496: Steps for Android Native Build of Python 3.4.2 http://bugs.python.org/issue23496 8 msgs #24294: DeprecationWarnings should be visible by default in the intera http://bugs.python.org/issue24294 8 msgs #24829: Use interactive input even if stdout is redirected http://bugs.python.org/issue24829 8 msgs #24913: deque.index() overruns deque boundary http://bugs.python.org/issue24913 8 msgs #24934: django_v2 benchmark not working in Python 3.6 http://bugs.python.org/issue24934 8 msgs #3548: subprocess.pipe function http://bugs.python.org/issue3548 7 msgs #24305: The new import system makes it inconvenient to correctly issue http://bugs.python.org/issue24305 7 msgs Issues closed (14) ================== #21112: 3.4 regression: unittest.expectedFailure no longer works on Te http://bugs.python.org/issue21112 closed by rbcollins #22812: Documentation of unittest -p usage wrong on windows. http://bugs.python.org/issue22812 closed by rbcollins #22936: traceback module has no way to show locals http://bugs.python.org/issue22936 closed by rbcollins #23552: Have timeit warn about runs that are not independent of each o http://bugs.python.org/issue23552 closed by rbcollins #24633: README file installed into site-packages conflicts with packag http://bugs.python.org/issue24633 closed by rbcollins #24769: Interpreter doesn't start when dynamic loading is disabled http://bugs.python.org/issue24769 closed by larry #24808: PyTypeObject fields have incorrectly documented types http://bugs.python.org/issue24808 closed by martin.panter #24847: Can't import tkinter in Python 3.5.0rc1 http://bugs.python.org/issue24847 closed by larry #24850: syslog.syslog() does not return error when unable to send the http://bugs.python.org/issue24850 closed by r.david.murray #24919: Use user shell in subprocess http://bugs.python.org/issue24919 closed by r.david.murray #24926: Incorrect Example in HTMLParser.handle_comment(data) http://bugs.python.org/issue24926 closed by r.david.murray #24943: Simplifying os.exec* http://bugs.python.org/issue24943 closed by r.david.murray #24944: traceback when using tempfile module on windows http://bugs.python.org/issue24944 closed by haypo #24947: asyncio-eventloop documentation grammar (minor) http://bugs.python.org/issue24947 closed by python-dev

4 years, 10 months

Testing tkinter on Linux

by Terry Reedy

None of the linux buildbots run with X enabled. Consequently none of the tkinter (or tkinter user) gui tests are run on Linux. It was thus pointed out to me, during discussion of using ttk widgets in Idle, that we do not really know if ttk works on the variety of Linux systems (beyond the one Serhiy uses) and that I should look into this. I asked on python-list for help, by linux users running python3 -m test -ugui test_tk test_ttk_guionly test_idle Seven people did so with Debian Jessie, Debian Wheezy, Gentoo, Mint, openSUSE, and Ubuntu (x2). One machine failed once with the ttk test, and then passed. Another failed the tk test until a mis-configuration was fixed. So tkinter, and ttk in particular, seems to be working on linux. Do any of the core devs who run the test suite on Linux do so with -uall or -ugui? The gui tests above take about 10 seconds (mostly the tk test) on my machine, with some flashing boxes near the end. -- Terry Jan Reedy

4 years, 10 months

How To Forward-Merge Your Change After Your Pull Request Is Accepted Into Python 3.5.0rcX

by Larry Hastings

Now that we're in the "release candidate" phase of Python 3.5.0, the workflow has changed a little. We're trying an experiment using Bitbucket and pull requests. You can read about that workflow, here: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2015-August/141167.html But the instructions for that workflow are pretty hazy on what you do after your pull request is accepted. This message is an addendum to those instructions, describing exactly what you should do after your pull request is accepted. To save wear and tear on my hands (and your eyes), for the rest of these instructions, I'm going to refer to each place-you-can-check-things-in-to by version number as follows: 3.4 : hg.python.org/cpython (branch "3.4") 3.5.0 : https://bitbucket.org/larry/cpython350 (branch "3.5") 3.5.1 : hg.python.org/cpython (branch "3.5") 3.6 : hg.python.org/cpython (branch "default") With that nomenclature established I can now precisely say: when your pull request is accepted into 3.5.0, you need to merge from 3.5.0 into 3.5.1, and then from 3.5.1 into 3.6. Doing this is much like the existing workflow. You use "hg merge" to merge your changes from previous versions into subsequent versions (what I call "forward merging"). What complicates matters is the fact that the 3.5.0 release candidates don't live in the normal repo--they lives in a repo on Bitbucket which is only writeable by me. In order to keep a tight lid on the changes checked in to the 3.5.0 release candidates, I won't pull revisions from the normal CPython repo. (If I did, I'd also pull in changes intended for 3.5.1, and... it'd be a mess.) So here come the instructions. They look long, but that's just because I go into a lot of detail to try and make them as foolproof as possible. They aren't really much longer or more complicated than the steps you already follow to perform forward-merges. Note that these are easy, guaranteed-clean instructions on how to perform the merge. Are there shortcuts you could take that might speed things up? Yes. But I encourage you to skip those shortcuts and stick to my instructions. Working with multiple branches is complicated enough, and this external repo makes things even more complicated. It's all too easy to make a mistake. HOW TO FORWARD-MERGE FROM 3.5.0 TO 3.5.1 ---------------------------------------- 1: Wait until your pull request has been accepted. 2: Make a *clean* local clone of the CPython tree, updated to the "3.5" branch. In my instructions I'll call the clone "cpython351-merge": % hg clone ssh://hg@hg.python.org/cpython -u 3.5 cpython351-merge % cd cpython351-merge 3: Confirm that you're in the correct branch. You should be in the "3.5" branch. Run this command: % hg id Let's assume that the current head in the "3.5" branch has changeset ID "7890abcdef". If that were true, the output of "hg id" would look like this: 7890abcdef (3.5) It might also say "tip" on the end, like this: 7890abcdef (3.5) tip If it doesn't say "3.5", switch to the 3.5 branch: % hg up -r 3.5 and repeat this step. 4: Pull from the 3.5.0 repo into your "cpython351-merge" directory. % hg pull ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/larry/cpython350 You should now have two "heads" in the 3.5 branch; the existing head you saw in the previous step, and the new head you just pulled in, which should be the changeset from your pull request. 5: As an optional step: confirm you have the correct two heads. This command will print a list of all the heads in the current repo: % hg heads Again, you should have exactly two identified as being on the "3.5" branch; one should have the changeset ID shown by "hg id" in step 3, the other should be your change from the pull request. 6: Merge the two heads together: % hg merge If there are merge conflicts, Mercurial will guide you through the conflict resolution process as normal. 7: Make sure that all your changes merged properly and you didn't merge anything else by accident. I run these two commands: % hg stat % hg diff and read all the output. 8: Make sure Misc/NEWS has your update in the right spot. (See below.) 9: Check in. The checkin comment should be something like Merge from 3.5.0 to 3.5.1. 10: Push your changes back into the main CPython repo. % hg push 11: Now forward-merge your change to 3.6 as normal, following the CPython Dev Guide instructions: https://docs.python.org/devguide/committing.html#merging-between-different-… FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS -------------------------- Q: I screwed something up! What do I do now? If you haven't pushed your changes out, it's no problem. Just delete your repo and start over. If you *have* pushed your changes out, obviously we'll need to fix the mistake. If you're not sure how to fix the problem, I suggest logging in to the #python-dev IRC channel and asking for help. Q: What do I need to do about Misc/NEWS? I'm glad you asked! First, you *must* put your Misc/NEWS update into the correct section. If you're creating a pull request for Python 3.5.0 rc-something, put it in the 3.5.0 rc-something section. If you're checking in to 3.5.1, put it in the 3.5.1 section. If you're just checking into 3.6, put it in the 3.6.0 alpha 1 section. Second, when you merge forward, make sure the merge tool puts your Misc/NEWS entry in the right section. The merge tool I seem to use isn't particularly smart about this, so I've had to manually edit Misc/NEWS many times to fix it. (When I released 3.5.0rc2, I had to do a lot of cleanup on Misc/NEWS, and again in the 3.5.1 branch, and again in 3.6.) Every time you merge forward, make sure your Misc/NEWS entry is in the right spot. Q: What if a second pull request is accepted before I get around to doing the merge? Well, *someone* needs to merge, and they're going to have to merge *both* changes. I can't come up with a good general policy here. Hopefully this won't happen often; for now let's just handle it on a case-by-case basis. Q: What if I have a bugfix for 3.4 that I want to ship with 3.5.0? You have to check in twice, and merge-forward twice. First, check in to 3.4, then merge forward into 3.5.1 and 3.6. Then, once your pull request is accepted into 3.5.0, do a "null merge" (a merge where no files are changed) from 3.5.0 into 3.5.1 and 3.6. Q: What if my pull request is turned down? If your bug fix isn't critical enough to merit shipping with 3.5.0, just check it into the normal 3.5 branch on hg.python.org and it'll ship with 3.5.1. (And, naturally, forward-merge it into 3.6.) //arry/

4 years, 10 months

Python Issue-subprocess problem

by Low, Wai HoeX

Dear, I have faced a problem as below when I startup the python IDLE [cid:image001.png@01D0E0CE.454096D0] Then I try to run a simple program like this: [cid:image002.png@01D0E0CE.454096D0] Other issue is pop out [cid:image003.png@01D0E0CE.454096D0] May I know how to fix the issue? My laptop is window 7 64bits. Thanks and having a nice day ! Regards, Arthur Low Wai Hoe

4 years, 10 months

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Python-Dev August 2015