Mailman 3 August 2015 - Python-Dev

who must makes FOR loop quicker
by John Doe Aug. 5, 2015

Aug. 5, 2015

To pass by reference or by copy of - that is the question from hamlet. ("hamlet" - a community of people smaller than a village python3.4-linux64) xlist = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] i = 0 for x in xlist: print(xlist) print("\txlist[%d] = %d" % (i, x)) if x%2 == 0 : xlist.remove(x) print(xlist, "\n\n") i = i + 1 So, catch the output and help me, PLEASE, improve the answer: Does it appropriate ALWAYS REevaluate the terms of the expression list in FOR-scope on each iteration? But if I want to pass ONCE a copy to FOR instead of a reference (as seen from an output) and reduce unreasonable reevaluation, what I must to do for that?

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PEP 447 (type.__getdescriptor__)
by Ronald Oussoren Aug. 5, 2015

Aug. 5, 2015

Hi, Another summer with another EuroPython, which means its time again to try to revive PEP 447… I’ve just pushes a minor update to the PEP and would like to get some feedback on this, arguably fairly esoteric, PEP. The PEP proposes to to replace direct access to the class __dict__ in object.__getattribute__ and super.__getattribute__ by calls to a new special method to give the metaclass more control over attribute lookup, especially for access using a super() object. This is needed for classes that cannot store (all) descriptors in the class dict for some reason, see the PEP text for a real-world example of that. Regards, Ronald The PEP text (with an outdated section with benchmarks removed): PEP: 447 Title: Add __getdescriptor__ method to metaclass Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren(a)mac.com> Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 12-Jun-2013 Post-History: 2-Jul-2013, 15-Jul-2013, 29-Jul-2013, 22-Jul-2015 Abstract ======== Currently ``object.__getattribute__`` and ``super.__getattribute__`` peek in the ``__dict__`` of classes on the MRO for a class when looking for an attribute. This PEP adds an optional ``__getdescriptor__`` method to a metaclass that replaces this behavior and gives more control over attribute lookup, especially when using a `super`_ object. That is, the MRO walking loop in ``_PyType_Lookup`` and ``super.__getattribute__`` gets changed from:: def lookup(mro_list, name): for cls in mro_list: if name in cls.__dict__: return cls.__dict__ return NotFound to:: def lookup(mro_list, name): for cls in mro_list: try: return cls.__getdescriptor__(name) except AttributeError: pass return NotFound The default implemention of ``__getdescriptor__`` looks in the class dictionary:: class type: def __getdescriptor__(cls, name): try: return cls.__dict__[name] except KeyError: raise AttributeError(name) from None Rationale ========= It is currently not possible to influence how the `super class`_ looks up attributes (that is, ``super.__getattribute__`` unconditionally peeks in the class ``__dict__``), and that can be problematic for dynamic classes that can grow new methods on demand. The ``__getdescriptor__`` method makes it possible to dynamically add attributes even when looking them up using the `super class`_. The new method affects ``object.__getattribute__`` (and `PyObject_GenericGetAttr`_) as well for consistency and to have a single place to implement dynamic attribute resolution for classes. Background ---------- The current behavior of ``super.__getattribute__`` causes problems for classes that are dynamic proxies for other (non-Python) classes or types, an example of which is `PyObjC`_. PyObjC creates a Python class for every class in the Objective-C runtime, and looks up methods in the Objective-C runtime when they are used. This works fine for normal access, but doesn't work for access with `super`_ objects. Because of this PyObjC currently includes a custom `super`_ that must be used with its classes, as well as completely reimplementing `PyObject_GenericGetAttr`_ for normal attribute access. The API in this PEP makes it possible to remove the custom `super`_ and simplifies the implementation because the custom lookup behavior can be added in a central location. .. note:: `PyObjC`_ cannot precalculate the contents of the class ``__dict__`` because Objective-C classes can grow new methods at runtime. Furthermore Objective-C classes tend to contain a lot of methods while most Python code will only use a small subset of them, this makes precalculating unnecessarily expensive. The superclass attribute lookup hook ==================================== Both ``super.__getattribute__`` and ``object.__getattribute__`` (or `PyObject_GenericGetAttr`_ and in particular ``_PyType_Lookup`` in C code) walk an object's MRO and currently peek in the class' ``__dict__`` to look up attributes. With this proposal both lookup methods no longer peek in the class ``__dict__`` but call the special method ``__getdescriptor__``, which is a slot defined on the metaclass. The default implementation of that method looks up the name the class ``__dict__``, which means that attribute lookup is unchanged unless a metatype actually defines the new special method. Aside: Attribute resolution algorithm in Python ----------------------------------------------- The attribute resolution proces as implemented by ``object.__getattribute__`` (or PyObject_GenericGetAttr`` in CPython's implementation) is fairly straightforward, but not entirely so without reading C code. The current CPython implementation of object.__getattribute__ is basicly equivalent to the following (pseudo-) Python code (excluding some house keeping and speed tricks):: def _PyType_Lookup(tp, name): mro = tp.mro() assert isinstance(mro, tuple) for base in mro: assert isinstance(base, type) # PEP 447 will change these lines: try: return base.__dict__[name] except KeyError: pass return None class object: def __getattribute__(self, name): assert isinstance(name, str) tp = type(self) descr = _PyType_Lookup(tp, name) f = None if descr is not None: f = descr.__get__ if f is not None and descr.__set__ is not None: # Data descriptor return f(descr, self, type(self)) dict = self.__dict__ if dict is not None: try: return self.__dict__[name] except KeyError: pass if f is not None: # Non-data descriptor return f(descr, self, type(self)) if descr is not None: # Regular class attribute return descr raise AttributeError(name) class super: def __getattribute__(self, name): assert isinstance(name, unicode) if name != '__class__': starttype = self.__self_type__ mro = startype.mro() try: idx = mro.index(self.__thisclass__) except ValueError: pass else: for base in mro[idx+1:]: # PEP 447 will change these lines: try: descr = base.__dict__[name] except KeyError: continue f = descr.__get__ if f is not None: return f(descr, None if (self.__self__ is self.__self_type__) else self.__self__, starttype) else: return descr return object.__getattribute__(self, name) This PEP should change the dict lookup at the lines starting at "# PEP 447" with a method call to perform the actual lookup, making is possible to affect that lookup both for normal attribute access and access through the `super proxy`_. Note that specific classes can already completely override the default behaviour by implementing their own ``__getattribute__`` slot (with or without calling the super class implementation). In Python code -------------- A meta type can define a method ``__getdescriptor__`` that is called during attribute resolution by both ``super.__getattribute__`` and ``object.__getattribute``:: class MetaType(type): def __getdescriptor__(cls, name): try: return cls.__dict__[name] except KeyError: raise AttributeError(name) from None The ``__getdescriptor__`` method has as its arguments a class (which is an instance of the meta type) and the name of the attribute that is looked up. It should return the value of the attribute without invoking descriptors, and should raise `AttributeError`_ when the name cannot be found. The `type`_ class provides a default implementation for ``__getdescriptor__``, that looks up the name in the class dictionary. Example usage ............. The code below implements a silly metaclass that redirects attribute lookup to uppercase versions of names:: class UpperCaseAccess (type): def __getdescriptor__(cls, name): try: return cls.__dict__[name.upper()] except KeyError: raise AttributeError(name) from None class SillyObject (metaclass=UpperCaseAccess): def m(self): return 42 def M(self): return "fourtytwo" obj = SillyObject() assert obj.m() == "fortytwo" As mentioned earlier in this PEP a more realistic use case of this functionallity is a ``__getdescriptor__`` method that dynamicly populates the class ``__dict__`` based on attribute access, primarily when it is not possible to reliably keep the class dict in sync with its source, for example because the source used to populate ``__dict__`` is dynamic as well and does not have triggers that can be used to detect changes to that source. An example of that are the class bridges in PyObjC: the class bridge is a Python object (class) that represents an Objective-C class and conceptually has a Python method for every Objective-C method in the Objective-C class. As with Python it is possible to add new methods to an Objective-C class, or replace existing ones, and there are no callbacks that can be used to detect this. In C code --------- A new slot ``tp_getdescriptor`` is added to the ``PyTypeObject`` struct, this slot corresponds to the ``__getdescriptor__`` method on `type`_. The slot has the following prototype:: PyObject* (*getdescriptorfunc)(PyTypeObject* cls, PyObject* name); This method should lookup *name* in the namespace of *cls*, without looking at superclasses, and should not invoke descriptors. The method returns ``NULL`` without setting an exception when the *name* cannot be found, and returns a new reference otherwise (not a borrowed reference). Use of this hook by the interpreter ----------------------------------- The new method is required for metatypes and as such is defined on `type_`. Both ``super.__getattribute__`` and ``object.__getattribute__``/`PyObject_GenericGetAttr`_ (through ``_PyType_Lookup``) use the this ``__getdescriptor__`` method when walking the MRO. Other changes to the implementation ----------------------------------- The change for `PyObject_GenericGetAttr`_ will be done by changing the private function ``_PyType_Lookup``. This currently returns a borrowed reference, but must return a new reference when the ``__getdescriptor__`` method is present. Because of this ``_PyType_Lookup`` will be renamed to ``_PyType_LookupName``, this will cause compile-time errors for all out-of-tree users of this private API. The attribute lookup cache in ``Objects/typeobject.c`` is disabled for classes that have a metaclass that overrides ``__getdescriptor__``, because using the cache might not be valid for such classes. Impact of this PEP on introspection ----------------------------------- Use of the method introduced in this PEP can affect introspection of classes with a metaclass that uses a custom ``__getdescriptor__`` method. This section lists those changes. The items listed below are only affected by custom ``__getdescriptor__`` methods, the default implementation for ``object`` won't cause problems because that still only uses the class ``__dict__`` and won't cause visible changes to the visible behaviour of the ``object.__getattribute__``. * ``dir`` might not show all attributes As with a custom ``__getattribute__`` method `dir()`_ might not see all (instance) attributes when using the ``__getdescriptor__()`` method to dynamicly resolve attributes. The solution for that is quite simple: classes using ``__getdescriptor__`` should also implement `__dir__()`_ if they want full support for the builtin `dir()`_ function. * ``inspect.getattr_static`` might not show all attributes The function ``inspect.getattr_static`` intentionally does not invoke ``__getattribute__`` and descriptors to avoid invoking user code during introspection with this function. The ``__getdescriptor__`` method will also be ignored and is another way in which the result of ``inspect.getattr_static`` can be different from that of ``builtin.getattr``. * ``inspect.getmembers`` and ``inspect.get_class_attrs`` Both of these functions directly access the class __dict__ of classes along the MRO, and hence can be affected by a custom ``__getdescriptor__`` method. **TODO**: I haven't fully worked out what the impact of this is, and if there are mitigations for those using either updates to these functions, or additional methods that users should implement to be fully compatible with these functions. One possible mitigation is to have a custom ``__getattribute__`` for these classes that fills ``__dict__`` before returning and and defers to the default implementation for other attributes. * Direct introspection of the class ``__dict__`` Any code that directly access the class ``__dict__`` for introspection can be affected by a custom ``__getdescriptor__`` method. Performance impact ------------------ **WARNING**: The benchmark results in this section are old, and will be updated when I've ported the patch to the current trunk. I don't expect significant changes to the results in this section. [snipped] Alternative proposals --------------------- ``__getattribute_super__`` .......................... An earlier version of this PEP used the following static method on classes:: def __getattribute_super__(cls, name, object, owner): pass This method performed name lookup as well as invoking descriptors and was necessarily limited to working only with ``super.__getattribute__``. Reuse ``tp_getattro`` ..................... It would be nice to avoid adding a new slot, thus keeping the API simpler and easier to understand. A comment on `Issue 18181`_ asked about reusing the ``tp_getattro`` slot, that is super could call the ``tp_getattro`` slot of all methods along the MRO. That won't work because ``tp_getattro`` will look in the instance ``__dict__`` before it tries to resolve attributes using classes in the MRO. This would mean that using ``tp_getattro`` instead of peeking the class dictionaries changes the semantics of the `super class`_. Alternate placement of the new method ..................................... This PEP proposes to add ``__getdescriptor__`` as a method on the metaclass. An alternative would be to add it as a class method on the class itself (simular to how ``__new__`` is a `staticmethod`_ of the class and not a method of the metaclass). The two are functionally equivalent, and there's something to be said about not requiring the use of a meta class. References ========== * `Issue 18181`_ contains an out of date prototype implementation Copyright ========= This document has been placed in the public domain. .. _`Issue 18181`: http://bugs.python.org/issue18181 .. _`super class`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#super .. _`super proxy`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#super .. _`super`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#super .. _`dir()`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#dir .. _`staticmethod`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#staticmethod .. _`__dir__()`: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#object.__dir__ .. _`NotImplemented`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/constants.html#NotImplemented .. _`PyObject_GenericGetAttr`: http://docs.python.org/3/c-api/object.html#PyObject_GenericGetAttr .. _`type`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#type .. _`AttributeError`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#AttributeError .. _`PyObjC`: http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/ .. _`classmethod`: http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#classmethod

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How to call PyOS_Readline from ctypes?
by Adam Bartoš Aug. 4, 2015

Aug. 4, 2015

Hello, I'd like to call PyOS_Readline or a particular readline hook function via ctypes. The problem is that the functions accepts stdin and stdout file pointers as first two arguments. These are usually pointers to the standard stdin and stdout files. But how to get the file pointers in Python 3? In Python 2, one could do PyFile_AsFile(py_object(sys.stdin)). I'm asking here since it is quite specific Python implementation related question. Actually, no one answered me on python-list ( https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-July/694633.html). Regards, Adam Bartoš

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Issues not responded to.
by Rustom Mody Aug. 3, 2015

Aug. 3, 2015

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Carl Meyer <carl(a)oddbird.net> wrote: > > I'm a Django core developer. For the last half-year or so, the Django > Software Foundation has (for the first time) paid a "Django Fellow" or > two (currently Tim Graham) to work on core Django. For me the experience > has been excellent. > > So based on my experience with the transition to having a DSF-paid > Fellow on the Django core team, and having watched important python-dev > work (e.g. the core workflow stuff) linger due to lack of available > volunteer time, I'd recommend that python-dev run, not walk, to ask the > PSF board to fund a similar position for Python core. > > Of course there may be differences between the culture of python-dev and > Django core > > A view from the other side. Yeah I guess its a good idea for PSF to spend some money to clear 'ugly' bugs. Dunno about the proc-n-cons of this so wont get into it. Instead I'd like to draw attention to the free side of the equation -- What would it take to have more hands with sleeves rolled up and doing the housecleaning? Context: We had a bunch of college students (2nd year Engineering) doing some projects with us. One was inside the CPython sources: https://github.com/rusimody/l10Python Their final presentation was last Thursday. Q: Is there anything in there that can reasonably be a patch for python? A: Please dont be embarrassing! However as a student project it was enough for us to say: "Good work!" Here's an REPL-session to demo: [Note १२३४५६७८९० is devanagari equivalent of 1234567890] -------------------------------------------------- Python 3.5.0b2 (default, Jul 30 2015, 19:32:42) [GCC 4.9.2] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> १२ 12 >>> 23 == २३ True >>> १२ + ३४ 46 >>> १२ + 34 46 >>> "12" == "१२" False >>> 2 ≤ 3 True >>> 2 ≠ 3 True >>> (λ x: x+3)(4) 7 >>> # as a result of which this doesn't work... I did say they are kids! ... >>> δ = 3 File "<stdin>", line 1 δ = 3 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax >>> {1,2,3} ∩ {2,3,4} {2, 3} >>> {1,2,3} ∪ {2,3,4} {1, 2, 3, 4} >>> ¬ True False >>> Σ([1,2,3,4]) 10 >>> ---------------------------------------------- The last is actually more an embarrassment than the δ breaking since they’ve *changed the lexer* to read the Σ when all that was required was Σ = sum !! In short... Kids! However as kids we could say they are farther to being programmers than they were before this -- opening something of the scale of CPython, finding one's way around and adding/modifying even the tiniest bit of functionality is a big growing-up step. Brings me to the point of this mail: Surely me+my students is not unique configuration -- there must be zillions of such across the world. And if inexperienced/kids like us had more help from people like the members of this list we would get farther and at least some subset of these may go on to become actual devs/contributors. So the request is that some of you give a tiny fraction of your time to teams just mucking around in the CPython codebase as a long term investment to producing more devs even when it is not directly connected to a possible contribution/patch. [Yeah I am a lurker on the mentors list but I dont see much *technical* discussion happening there] We could actually submit patches. Just that the priorities of the 3 parties -- teachers, students, devs -- is clearly different: - Teachers need to give/create a good learning experience - Students need to shine, do well, excel...("show off" is not an inaccurate description) - Devs need the language to progress and bugs to be fixed Though these priorities are different I believe a symbiosis is possible. In particular, at least some of the -- for a dev -- 'ugly-bugs' could be a challenge in an academic context. I will be teaching again to more advanced students this time If I could find a path through bugs of different challenge-levels we may get some bugs fixed... Thanks Rusi -- http://blog.languager.org

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PEP 492 documentation
by Nikolaus Rath Aug. 2, 2015

Aug. 2, 2015

Hello, Looking at the language reference for 3.5.0b4, I noticed that it mentions neither async nor await. Is this still going to get updated, or will the only documentation consist of the PEP itself? I think having a Python release recognize keywords that are not mentioned in the language reference would be quite unfortunate (even if they're treated specially to preserve backwards compatibility). Best, -Nikolaus -- GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

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Issues not responded to.
by Mark Lawrence Aug. 1, 2015

Aug. 1, 2015

There are over 400 issues on the bug tracker that have not had a response to the initial message, roughly half of these within the last eight months alone. Is there a (relatively) simple way that we can share these out between us to sort those that are likely to need dealing with in the medium to longer term, from the simple short term ones, e.g very easy typo fixes? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence

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