On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 4:38 AM Mark Shannon <mark@hotpy.org> wrote:
Hi Nick,

On 22/08/2021 4:51 am, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> If Mark's claim that PyEval_GetLocals() could not be fixed was true then
> I would be more sympathetic to his proposal, but I know it isn't true,
> because it still works fine in the PEP 558 implementation (it even
> immediately sees changes made via proxies, and proxies see changes to
> extra variables). The only truly unfixable public API is
> PyFrame_LocalsToFast().

You are making claims that seem inconsistent with each other.
Namely, you are claiming that:

1. That the result of locals() is ephemeral.
2. That PyEval_GetLocals() returns a borrowed reference.

This seems impossible, as you can't return a borrowed reference to
an emphemeral object. That's just a pointer to freed memory.

Do `locals()` and `PyEval_GetLocals()` behave differently?

That is my understanding, yes. in PEP 558 locals() returns a snapshot dict, the Python-level f_locals property returns a fresh proxy that has no state except a pointer to the frame, and PyEval_GetLocals() returns a borrowed reference to the dict that's stored on the frame's C-level f_locals attribute.

(In my "crazy" proposal all that is the same.)
 
Is the result of `PyEval_GetLocals()` cached, but `locals()` not?

I wouldn't call it a cache -- deleting it would affect the semantics, not just the performance. But yes, it returns a reference to an object that is owned by the frame, just as it does in 3.10 and before.
 
If that were the case, then it is a bit confusing, but could work.

Yes, see my "crazy" proposal.
 
Would PyEval_GetLocals() be defined as something like this?

(add _locals_cache attribute to the frame which is initialized to NULL).

def PyEval_GetLocals():
     frame._locals_cache attribute = locals()
     return borrow(frame._locals_cache attribute)

Nah, the dict returned by PyEval_GetLocals() is stored in the frame's C-level f_locals attribute, which is consulted by the Python-level f_locals proxy -- primarily to store "extra" variables, but IIUC in Nick's latest version it is also still used to cache by that proxy. Nick's locals() just returns dict(sys._getframe().f_locals).
 
None of this is clear (at least not to me) from PEP 558.

One problem with PEP 558 is that it's got too many words, and it's lacking a section that crisply describes the semantics of the proposed implementation. I've suggested to Nick that he add a section with pseudo-code for the implementation, like you did in yours.

(PS, did you read my PS about what locals() should do in class scope when __prepare__ returns a non-dict?)

--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)