On 10/03/2012 05:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
That's your prerogative as RM of course, but you haven't given any
reason beyond the circular "I don't care about enabling feedback from
people that can't or won't build from source, because people that
can't or won't build from source don't provide useful feedback".

That's not quite what I said.  I simply said that the alphas are largely ignored.

My perspective is that most people ignore the alphas and only get interested when the software "solidifies".  Having more alphas, or having earlier alphas, doesn't mean we'll have more people interested in the alphas.

Adding more alphas (as you have previously suggested) adds additional workload on myself and the rest of the release team--I don't know what the Mac build is like, but I know Martin has to intercede manually to coax a Windows installer out of the build.  I'm loathe to burn their time for what I perceive as little return.

Changing an existing alpha to be earlier doesn't alter the workload, but I fear it makes the alpha less relevant.  Evaluating alphas / betas takes an investment of time, and whether or not a potential alpha user makes that investment depends on what they expect to get out of testing the alpha.  If they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, just to help Python--well, that's fabulous, and more / earlier alphas might actually interest them.  But my suspicion is that most people who try the alphas are doing early integration testing with their own stuff.  For those people, the earlier the alpha, the less interesting it probably is to them.  Earlier means that the software will be less finished.  It will be buggier, it won't have as many features as the beta will.  As a result it won't be as revealing--or as relevant--as a later alpha or even a beta.  If that's their perspective, I suspect they'll be less likely to try an earlier alpha.

In short, I see the scheduling of alphas as a tradeoff between "early enough that we'll have time to fix things" and "late enough that the software is reasonably complete".

What it really comes down to: I'm a first-time RM, and I lack the courage/wisdom to overrule what appears to be a reasonable status quo.  I feel I don't have to defend the decision to maintain the status quo; I feel instead you have to make a case for changing it.  So far all I recall seeing from you are assertions.  I'd like to see some harder data.


On 10/03/2012 05:28 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
The webstats in April 2012 show 5628 downloads of 3.3a1 and 4946
downloads of 3.3a2 Windows installers.

I'd love to know how much feedback we got as a result of these downloads.  Do we have any way of telling?

And out of curiosity, how many 3.3.0 final Windows installers have been downloaded so far?


On 10/03/2012 05:29 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote:
How about having nightly builds then?

We simply don't have a fully-automated process to produce installers for all platforms.  In fact, I fear we don't have a fully-automated process to produce installers for any platforms.


On 10/03/2012 05:40 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
FWIW, I *will* be downloading and installing the 3.4 alphas as soon as
they come out. How much I'll *use* them depends on what issues I find
with them - but that's the whole point, I'll feed back my experiences.

Excellent, thanks for the data!  As long as you're volunteering interesting data ;-), what platform will you be testing on?  And what is your purpose in downloading the alphas--just Good Samaritan-ism, or integration testing with software you care about, or what?


/arry