"A) I can call a function and might get a return value. B) I can await an awaitable and might get a return value. C) I cannot use them interchangeably. Why?" Function != awaitable - the answer is right there in the terminology. Different names, different things. Given A, B and the fact that an awaitable is just an object, here's another important point: * I can call a function and might get an awaitable. If the function was decorated with async, the "might" becomes "will", but it's still just a function returning a value. Because an awaitable is indistinguishable from any other value, the compiler doesn't know whether to await or not, so it has to be specified by the developer. If the language specifies it, then it's impossible to handle awaitable objects (for example, to put them in a list and await them later). C# is another language that implemented this exact model a few years ago and it works well. Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Sven R. Kunze<mailto:srkunze@mail.de> Sent: 7/5/2015 14:50 To: python-dev@python.org<mailto:python-dev@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Importance of "async" keyword Thanks, Nick, for you reasoned response. On 03.07.2015 11:40, Nick Coghlan wrote:
My understanding of coloring is "needs special treatment".
Being special or not (containing an 'await' or not), as long as I don't need to care, I can call them either way (with 'await' or not) and each case works sensibly that's fine with me. I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in that regard, as wishing
On 3 July 2015 at 06:55, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze@mail.de> wrote: that event driven programs behaved more like synchronous programs is like wishing that complex numbers behaved like real numbers. Seems like we stick to this example once again. So, let me get this straight:
1) I can add, subtract, multiply and divide real numbers. 2) I can add, subtract, multiply and divide complex numbers. 3) I can even add, subtract, multiply and divide complex numbers AND real numbers altogether in a single expression. 4) Granted, complex numbers can do more but that basically follows from their definition and does not jeopardize ease of usage. A) I can call a function and might get a return value. B) I can await an awaitable and might get a return value. C) I cannot use them interchangeably. Why? Because people think we cannot have the best things of both worlds. D) Granted, awaitables can do more but that basically follows from their definition and does not need to jeopardize ease of usage.
There's an extra level of complexity that is being deliberately introduced in order to improve Python's ability to express certain kinds of algorithms, and it isn't effective to just try to wish that complexity away.
The payoff is that code that otherwise needs to be written as a long series of disconnected callback chains (as has long been possible with Twisted) can instead be written to look more like comparable synchronous code
That is great. So, let's do the next step.
(and this approach should bring with it much improved introspection support, at least in 3.5+ now that gi_yieldfrom and cr_await are being exposed at the Python level).
Sensible would be something similar to: await function: suspension point and runs the function until completion call awaitable: runs the awaitable until completion These both fail, and deliberately so: we don't know what they're supposed to mean, and we refuse the temptation to guess.
Where do we guess here? It is a definition.
They're also quite likely to indicate a bug (e.g. forgetting to call a native coroutine function to get the coroutine out of it, forgetting to wait for an awaitable) rather than something folks have done deliberately.
It's possible shorthand adapters may emerge over time, like:
# Call awaitable from synchronous code def wait_for_result(awaitable): """Usage: result = asyncio.wait_for_result(awaitable)""" return asyncio.get_event_loop().run_until_complete(awaitable.__await__())
# Call blocking operation from asynchronous code def blocking_call(f, *args, **kwds): """Usage: result = await asyncio.blocking_call(f, *args, **kwds))""" cb = functools.partial(f, *args, **kwds) return asyncio.get_event_loop().run_in_executor(cb)
However, those can be written already as utility functions, so we can wait and see how strong the demand is for them as adapters. (They may also be potentially useful to have as recipes in the documentation) Sure, that would be reasonable. You have the first guy asking explicitly for these types of adapters provided by the current syntax and removal of 'async'.
Until a solution, we return to watching and have one reason less to switch to Python 3. :-/ _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/steve.dower%40microsoft.c...