On 7 July 2015 at 21:49, s.krah <stefan@bytereef.org> wrote:
Erik Bray <erik.m.bray@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:22:46 +1000 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan@gmail.com> wrote:
The main change from the last version discussed on python-ideas
Was it discussed there? That list has become totally useless, I've stopped following it.
Considering that a useful discussion of a useful PEP occurred there (not to mention other occasionally useful discussions) I'd say that such a value judgment is not only unnecessary but also inaccurate. That's fine if it's uninteresting to you and you don't want to follow it, but let's please avoid judgments on entire mailing lists and, by extension, the people holding conversations there.
In an informal setting, exaggeration is used widely in continental Europe. I found the remark funny and was glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has problems with python-ideas.
Folks are free to make all the jokes they want about python-ideas over drinks at a conference, or when bouncing their heads off their desks at how far off the rails a particular thread has gone - we wouldn't be human if we didn't need to vent our frustrations sometimes. That doesn't make it OK to vent those frustrations *here*. Here, python-ideas needs to be accepted as a useful component of the development process - it's the location where more freewheeling "this *might* be a good idea" design discussions can happen with input from experienced core developers and other community members without bothering the folks that aren't interested in those kinds of conversations, before python-dev and the issue tracker come into play to provide more ruthless weeding out of the bad ideas. An awful lot of what we discuss on python-ideas will turn out to be a bad idea, just be sheer weight of probability. However, even weeding out the bad ideas is a useful exercise in refining our collective understanding of what "good" looks like (I know I've learned a *lot* from the many occasions where Guido or someone else has persuaded me that one of my ideas wasn't as good as I originally thought it was). It's OK if folks aren't interested in participating in the noisy early stages of that process - that's why the activity was long since moved out to a dedicated list. It's not OK to make the jump from "I don't consider participating in that to be the best possible use of my own time" to "it isn't worth doing". Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia