At 12:40 AM 9/24/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
Come on phillip, no one is "plotting" against you.
Perhaps this is a language issue. When I said, "if Tarek is too busy projecting hidden plots onto everything I say and do," I meant that you were acting as if I were plotting against *you*, not the other way around. (For example, you described one of my proposals as "suspicious", in a context that made it appear you were concerned it would undermine your plans for Distribute.)
However, I find it "suspicious" myself, that, rather than actually address *any* of the substantial issues I brought up, you chose to re-argue points I'm not even disputing.
For example, is it really necessary to make *every* post of yours that mentions me include an essay on how long it's been since the last setuptools release? As I said below, I don't see how that's remotely relevant to the value of my contributions... but somehow you find a way to bring it up constantly.
Do you feel so guilty about forking that you need to continually re-justify yourself? If you're doing it on my account, do please stop. AFAIR, I haven't said a negative thing about your fork since it got off the ground, and have in fact said many positive things about it. Indeed, the only negative thing I would currently say about it, is that your characterization of it as a "friendly" fork is not consistent with your public behavior and demeanor towards me.
Once again, I'd like for the badgering to stop. Thanks.
At 12:40 AM 9/24/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
You didn't maintain setuptools for a year while people where begging you to do bug fixes. You blessed Ian and Jim to take over but they are too busy to do it . I even sent them a mail on my side to try to convince them.
So we asked you to bless someone else that was active (not in particular me as your mail seem to say) but you did not. So we forked. And people were pissed off at you. (Which I am sorry about)
If a project is not maintained and if the maintainer does not open it to other maintainers, that s the way to go .
And the fact that I took the lead of that fork doesn't mean I am offended because you did not bless me to maintain setuptools. It just means that I want to move forward and have a working tool for python 3.
So let me make it clear that when you say "Tarek appears" it is something I have never said but rather something you are thinking like being the truth.
Now for the Distribute work , your patches are very welcome. It s a community project.
On Sep 23, 2009 10:47 PM, "P.J. Eby" <mailto:email@example.com@telecommunity.com> wrote:
At 07:00 PM 9/23/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > > While it's great to have Philipp being part of o... Here's what actually happened, if anyone cares. Tarek and friends announced a fork of setuptools. I reviewed the work and saw that -- for the most part -- I was happy with it, and opined as how I might be willing to bless the the "package inquisition" team as official maintainers of the 0.6 branch of setuptools, so that I could work on the fun bits I've long planned for 0.7, but never felt free to start on while there was so much still needing to be done on 0.6.
However, just as I mentioned this, and suggested an option for what I could do that would be helpful to his Distribute 0.7 project as well as various other tools (e.g. implementing some of Jim Fulton's long-requested features for better modularization of setuptools), Tarek accused me of somehow trying to undermine his plans.
In addition, it appears Tarek was also offended by my earlier statement that there were only a few people in the Python community who had *already* earned my implicit trust to not only hack on setuptools unsupervised, but also to take over its *future* direction and BDFL-ship. (For example, Jim Fulton and Ian Bicking.)
Tarek, however, appears to have taken this to mean that I personally thought he was an incompetent programmer or something (when I actually had no opinion one way or the other), and ever since he has taken to levelling potshots like the above at me on a semi-regular basis.
I've tried to ignore this and play nice, because he is actually working on this stuff and I am not. But it's hard for me to actually give any help in practice, if Tarek is too busy projecting hidden plots onto everything I say and do.
If you read Tarek's distutils-sig posts, it appears my already-existing trust in Ian and Jim was not only a personal insult to Tarek, but also a plot to ensure that nobody with any time to do so would ever work on setuptools, just as my excitement about working on setuptools again was a plot to steal thunder from his fork.
All I want is for good stuff to happen for setuptools users and Python users in general, so I don't think all the suspicion and backbiting is merited. I certainly don't appreciate it, and I would like it to stop. It also isn't even relevant to the thread, since my lack of work on setuptools says exactly zero about the merits or lack thereof of Tarek's proposals for the distutils!
Hell, I *support* the bulk of Tarek's setup.cfg proposal, and don't even object to him Pronouncing it or cutting off the discussion! My only issue on Python-Dev was his inaccurate implication that it was a SIG consensus rather than a pronouncement on it. There is and was no need for any of this to get personal, and I have continually strived to keep my posts here and distutils-sig civil, even when I didn't feel like being civil in response to Tarek's jabs. I have in fact bent over backwards to be *nice* to Tarek, because he seemed so damn sensitive about everything. Apparently, however, this does not actually help things. :-(