On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:42:45 -0700 Nathaniel Smith <njs@pobox.com> wrote:
Obviously it's nice when the refcount system is able to implicitly clean things up in a prompt and deterministic way, but there are already tools to handle the cases where it doesn't (ResourceWarning, context managers, ...), and the more we encourage people to implicitly rely on refcounting, [...]
The thing is, we don't need to encourage them. Having objects disposed of when the last visible reference vanishes is a pretty common expectation people have when using CPython.
Why are reference cycles a problem that needs solving?
Because sometimes they are holding up costly resources in memory when people don't expect them to. Such as large Numpy arrays :-)
Do we have any reason to believe that this is actually happening on a regular basis though? If it is then it might make sense to look at the cycle collection heuristics; IIRC they're based on a fairly naive count of how many allocations have been made, without regard to their size.
And, no, there are no obvious ways to fix for users. gc.collect() is much too costly to be invoked on a regular basis.
Because if so then that seems like a bug in the warnings mechanism; there's no harm in a dead Thread hanging around until collected, and Victor may have wasted a day debugging an issue that wasn't a problem in the first place...
Yes, I think Victor is getting a bit overboard with the so-called "dangling thread" issue. But the underlying issue (that heavyweight resources can be inadvertently held up in memory up just because some unrelated exception was caught and silenced along the way) is a real one.
Simply catching and silencing exceptions doesn't create any loops -- if you do try: raise ValueError except ValueError as exc: raise exc then there's no loop, because the 'exc' local gets cleared as soon as you exit the except: block. The issue that Victor ran into with socket.create_connection is a special case where that function saves off the caught exception to use later. If someone wanted to replace socket.create_connection's 'raise err' with try: raise err finally: del err then I guess that would be pretty harmless... -n -- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org