Victor Stinner wrote:
Le jeu. 23 janv. 2020 à 20:45, Brett Cannon email@example.com a écrit :
Two pieces of feedback on this. One, nose is a bad example because that project has been telling people for years to switch to nose2 so the fact that people have still not switched something that should mostly be a direct swap after years of being asked to does not motivate in wanting to postpone one more year for that project's benefit. ;) (And where did you get the download stats on libraries.io? https://libraries.io/pypi/nose doesn't show any download counts.) Oh right, download stats can be found at: https://pypistats.org/packages/nose
Downloads last day: 150,272 Downloads last week: 824,557 Downloads last month: 3,077,860 150k downloads yesterday.
Ah, thanks! To put this in perspective, pytest had 631,008 downloads yesterday.
Two, you buried the list of things you would like to revert and postpone to Python 3.10. :) I'm not sure of the meaning of "buried" here. What do you mean?
Sorry, North American phrase. It means you put the important part way down towards the bottom. Another North American phrase that might apply is "burying the lead".
Basically you put the interesting, important stuff so far down it was easy to overlook. :) My suggestion would have been to structure the email as "Fedora is seeing some transition problems for projects ATM. Reverting these 5 changes and postponing them to 3.10 would help a lot, and here is a bunch of detail about why we are making this proposal." IOW putting the list towards the top makes it easier to set expectations of what you're asking for while you try to justify the request, otherwise I could be reading most of that email as if you're suggesting we bring back the print statement or something. ;)
We propose to revert 5 changes:
Removed tostring/fromstring methods in array.array and base64 modules Removed collections aliases to ABC classes Removed fractions.gcd() function (which is similar to math.gcd()) Remove "U" mode of open(): having to use io.open() just for Python 2 makes the code uglier Removed old plistlib API: 2.7 doesn't have the new API
Was this copied-and-pasted from somewhere, hence why you explain to us how to use -X dev? Well, use whatever you want to see DeprecationWarning, as soon as you
fix all of them in your project :-) PYTHONWARNINGS=default should be fine as well. IMO it's simpler to remind "-X dev" than using PYTHONWARNINGS=default. By the way, -X dev and PYTHONWARNINGS=default shows more warnings than just DeprecationWarning: they also show ImportWarning, PendingDeprecationWarning and ResourceWarning. -X dev helps to make your project ready for the next Python version.
Basically it isn't easy to discuss the things you want to revert here, especially since you grouped them all together. Are you planning to start separate conversations on the (I think) 5 things you want to change? I'm not sure of what you mean. Would you prefer one mail thread per revert?
It's not only about specific changes, but more a discussion about a general policy to decide if a deprecated feature should stay until 3.10, or if it's ok to remove it in 3.9. For example, another feature has been removed since we drafted this email: "The encoding parameter of json.loads() has been removed." If we follow the proposed policy, it should also be reverted. It seems like the incompatible change causing most issues is the collections change. We can try to produce statistics per change if you prefer. I understand that you disagree to revert changes, but you would prefer to decide on a case by case basis. Victor Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.