[ongoing discussion of conditional expressions] I waited until I had caught up on my reading before saying anything. Now I'll express my opinion in a single posting then keep quiet unless I actually find I have something novel to contribute (difficult in a topic that's been talked to death 3 or 4 times in the past few years). * I am STRONGLY in favor of introducing a conditional expression in some form. The use of the "and-or" trick is proof enough to me that there is a need for it. I can marshall other arguments also, but they appear unnecessary. * The syntax to use is a place where we need a BDFL decision. Make the decision and we'll all agree and move on. Any decision would be better than an eternity of re-discovering old ideas again and again. * I think the two best options are trueval if cond else falseval and if cond then trueval else falseval The first has brevity in it's favor, and "cleverness" which might be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your point of view. The second has order-of-arguments in its favor. In either case, wise programmers will use parenthesees when it aids clarity (imagine "v1 if c else v2 + v3"). Whether we require parenthesees when the parser could disambiguate on its own is really up to Guido. * I prefer the second form ("if cond then trueval else falseval") because it puzzles _nobody_ at the expense of being slightly more wordy and less clever. But that's just one person's opinion. Thanks Guido, for maintaining your patience in the face of this discussion. -- Michael Chermside