On 26 Sep 2021, at 04:09, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
On 2021-09-26 00:14, jack.jansen@cwi.nl wrote:
I think we really need to come up with some scheme whereby extension packages become more long-lived than a single Python release... You mean, something like the Python ABI (PEP 384, Stable Application Binary Interface)?
And Steven D”Aprano also mentioned the stable ABI. The problem with the stable ABI is that very few developers are targeting it. I’m not sure why not, whether it has to do with incompleteness of the ABI, or with issues targeting it easily and your builds and then having pip/PyPI do the right things with wheels and all that. I’ve been on the capi-sig mailing list since its inception in 2007, but the discussions are really going over my head. I don’t understand what the problems are that keep people from targeting the stable ABI (or the various other attempts at standardising extensions over Python versions).
On 26 Sep 2021, at 06:21, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
Do you have a reason to think that it is in danger in some way? Some factor that didn't apply equally in 2001 and 2011 as it does in 2021?
Yes, very much so. Wheels. Before we had wheels there were very few packages that were distributed in binary form, the NumPy family and the various GUI toolkits are the only ones that come to mind, and they had very active developer communities that tracked Python releases. Wheels are absolutely wonderful, but the downside is that everyone has come to depend on them. Before wheels, extension modules were often optional, in that many packages would provide their basic functionality in pure Python, and then have some performance-enhancing or functionality-extending optional extension modules. Wheels have obviated the need for that. So now everything depends on extension modules (and on external packages that depend on extension modules, and so on). -- Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman