On 3/19/06, John J Lee jjl@pobox.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, Brett Cannon wrote:
On 3/17/06, A.M. Kuchling amk@amk.ca wrote:
Thought: We should drop all of httplib, urllib, urllib2, and ftplib, and instead adopt some third-party library for HTTP/FTP/whatever, write a Python wrapper, and use it instead. (The only such library I
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But maybe this also poses a larger question of where for Py3K we want to take the stdlib. Ignoring its needed cleanup and nesting of the namespace, do we want to try to use more external tools by importing them and writing a Pythonic wrapper? Or do we want to not do that and try to keep more things under our control and go with the status quo? Or do we want to really prune down the stdlib and use more dynamic downloading ala Cheeseshop and setuptools?
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Do we have any idea yet what sort of timescale we're talking about for Python 3.0 (or should I call it Py3K still)?
Py3K. It's shorter and since Python 3.0 is still just a PEP and Guido's neurons it really has not materalized yet to be an upcoming version of Python yet. =)
I have a personal interest in these particular modules, but the questions that seem to need answering first are more general ones about the stdlib post-3.0. Brett asks some good questions.
ISTM that another important question must be: What do each of the small set of people like yourself (Brett), Andrew, Martin, Georg, Raymond (etc.!) who bear most of the burden of maintaining the stdlib at present, intend to do after Python 3.0 is out? I assume that it would only be useful to drop parts of the stdlib in this way if that group of people were then to stop working on them. That makes sense, but I don't want to make assumptions about what each of the group of people referred to above intend to do post-3.0:
a. Drop 2.x right away to concentrate on developing and maintaining the 3.0 stdlib (and/or the 3.0 interpreter)?
b. Spend at least some effort maintaining 2.x for a few years?
c. Carry on maintaining 2.x for a few years?
d. Ignore 3.x and continue with 2.x indefinitely?
e. Watch and see how the Python community at large responds to 3.0?
f. Wait and see what you feel like doing at the time?
g. Some combination of the above?
h. Quit Python to take up pig farming?
Py3K will most likely be just another release of Python with a lot of changes. The final 2.x release will be maintained for a while just because we always maintain the last stable release while the next version is being developed. But since the 2.x series will be depended upon by people for quite a while I suspect we will continue to patch it and release it as long as Anthony is willing to do micro releases and developers plan to continue to backport fixes.
Personally, I plan to help to maintain the 2.x series, but once Python 3.0 becomes a reality, it won't be my focus. One would hope that bugs in the 2.x series will get closed up over time and will require less and less maintenance. But backporting might be a problem from 3.x to 2.x because of fundamental differences of how things are structured on top of people just losing interest in 2.x since it isn't bleeding edge.
These sorts of questions are often quite hard to answer, I understand, because many people often want to see what everybody else will do before making up their minds. But I guess people who post here frequently are less likely to do that than are the rest of us sheep ;-)
[BTW, I assume much of the stdlib will remain essentially the same (if not without backwards-incompatibilities), one hopes people will step in to backport 3.0 fixes (and perhaps forward-port: I make no judgement about which of 2.x and 3.x will have the larger user community in the short or long term). People will presumably be more motivated to do that than currently, since I assume many people will not port all (or any) of their code to 3.0.]
Well, I don't know if the stdlib will stay the same. It will definitely get pruned down and cleaned up (wouldn't be shocked if we have a Great Renaming like the C codebase did way back in the day). So I have no clue where the stdlib will go compared to 2.x .
-Brett