On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Paul McMillan <email@example.com>
> I'm not too concerned about a 3rd party being able to guess the random seedThis is incorrect. Once an attacker has guessed the random seed, any
> -- this would require much more effort on their part, since they would have
> to generate a new set of colliding keys each time they think they have
> guessed the hash
operation which reveals the ordering of hashed objects can be used to
verify the answer. JSON responses would be ideal. In fact, an attacker
can do a brute-force attack of the random seed offline. Once they have
the seed, generating collisions is a fast process.
Still, it would represent an effort for the attacker of a much greater magnitude than the current attack. It's all a trade-off -- at some point it'll just be easier for the attacker to use some other vulnerability. Also the class of vulnerable servers would be greatly reduced.
The goal isn't perfection, but we need to do better than a simple
I propose we modify the string hash function like this:
This code is based on PyPy's implementation, but the concept is
universal. Rather than choosing a single short random seed per
process, we generate a much larger random seed (r). As we hash, we
deterministically choose a portion of that seed and incorporate it
into the hash process. This modification is a minimally intrusive
change to the existing hash function, and so should not introduce
unexpected side effects which might come from switching to a different
class of hash functions.
I'm not sure I understand this. What's the worry about "a different class of hash functions"? (It may be clear that I do not have a deep mathematical understanding of hash functions.)
I've worked through this code with Alex Gaynor, Antoine Pitrou, and
Victor Stinner, and have asked several mathematicians and security
experts to review the concept. The reviewers who have gotten back to
me thus far have agreed that if the initial random seed is not flawed,
I forget -- what do we do on systems without urandom()? (E.g. Windows?)
this should not overly change the properties of the hash function, but
should make it quite difficult for an attacker to deduce the necessary
information to predictably cause hash collisions. This function is not
designed to protect against timing attacks, but should be nontrivial
to reverse even with access to timing data.
Let's worry about timing attacks another time okay?
Empirical testing shows that this unoptimized python implementation
produces ~10% slowdown in the hashing of ~20 character strings. This
is probably an acceptable trade off, and actually provides better
performance in the case of short strings than a high-entropy
fixed-length seed prefix.