On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 11:03 AM Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:37 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado <pablogsal@gmail.com> wrote:
>Two volunteer core developers and at least one buildbot would help a
> lot to ensure that Python is working on Solaris for real, and reduce
> the number of open Solaris issues. If it happens, I'm perfectly fine
> with keeping Solaris support.
> I also hope that more people will contribute to maintain the code, not
> only Ronald and Jesús. Many people wrote to me that Python is a key
> component of Illumos (the package manager is written in Python). So
> maybe Python on Illumos deserves some love?

If we decide to take the proposal seriously, I think it may be beneficial
to establish a deadline for having the buildbot green and the issues fixed,
so the promise of having "real" support at some point in the future does
actually manifest itself or it does not block following Victor's proposal if it
actually does not happen.

I agree, and so maybe it's time to more formally establish what platforms we do support, such that any platform not listed is not considered supported. We could reorient PEP 11 towards that and for each platform we list:

1. Which buildbot must be green for that platform to be considered supported
2. Who is in charge of submitting patches to keep that buildbot green (and what that minimum number of people is)
3. We have an agreed upon timeline that if a buildbot stays red for longer than the specified time then the platform is considered abandoned
4. We all agree to prioritize patches from the people listed for a platform to fix their buildbots if they are not core devs
5. We have a clear definition of "platform" (e.g. is "Linux" a platform, or does it break down to individual distros?)

Would there be anything else we would want for a platform for us to be willing to consider it supported?

If we're going to explicitly list Platforms, that gets messy to maintain.  It becomes important to draw a distinction between types of support.  Support is not a boolean.  We're autoconf based on the posix side (like it or not) which leads to a lot of things that for the most part just mostly work, regardless of support.  That is working as intended.

Generally, recent enough of each of: Linux distros (all architectures), macOS, Windows, and AIX.  But that alone does not constitute a platform.

But to define things explicitly you need a definition of what a Platform is:

is it an OS kernel? what version(s)? compiler toolchain? what versions? Is it also the C library? what version(s) of which libc variants (linux has at least three)? other system libraries? what versions? specific CPU architectures? what versions.  The matrix gets huge.

It can be defined.

But then you need to clarify the different levels of not being in that matrix. "on the list, all clear" vs "likely works, no guarantees" vs "expect lots of test failures" vs "expect extension module build failures" vs "expect the core interpreter build to fail".

We've not done this in the past.  Would it even add value?

It is much easier to look at the list of buildbots tagged "stable".  and consider that "on the list, all clear" and everything else is in an unspecified one of the other four+ categories without arguments over which sub-support list any given thing is in.

-gps


-Brett



On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 12:54, Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
Hi Ronald,

Le ven. 30 oct. 2020 à 12:59, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren@mac.com> a écrit :
> I agree. That’s what I tried to write, its not just providing a buildbot but also making sure that it keeps working and stays green.

This is really great!

Jesús Cea Avión is also a volunteer to maintain the Solaris (see the bpo).

Moreover, it seems like some people would like to provide servers to
run a Solaris buildbot. Example:
https://bugs.python.org/issue42173#msg379895

Two volunteer core developers and at least one buildbot would help a
lot to ensure that Python is working on Solaris for real, and reduce
the number of open Solaris issues. If it happens, I'm perfectly fine
with keeping Solaris support.

I also hope that more people will contribute to maintain the code, not
only Ronald and Jesús. Many people wrote to me that Python is a key
component of Illumos (the package manager is written in Python). So
maybe Python on Illumos deserves some love?

There are many ways to contribute to the Solaris support of Python:

* Comment Solaris issues (bugs.python.org, search for "Solaris" in the title)
* Propose PRs to fix issues or implement Solaris specific features
* Review Solaris PRs
* Provide Solaris servers accessible to Python core developers (SSH access)
* Donate to the CPython project:

  * https://www.python.org/psf/donations/python-dev/
  * https://github.com/sponsors/python

* etc.

See also the https://devguide.python.org/ if you would like to
contribute to Python.

By the way, thanks Jakub Kulík (CC-ed to this email) who fixed
multiple Solaris issues in the last 2 years ;-)

Victor
--
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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