I think it's reasonable for the PEP to include some examples, consequences and best practices. I don't think it's reasonable for the PEP to also define the API and implementation of helper functions that might be added once the mechanisms are in place. Those are better developed as 3rd party packages first.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> wrote:
15.11.17 12:53, Ivan Levkivskyi пише:
On 15 November 2017 at 08:43, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com <mailto:storchaka@gmail.com>> wrote:

    It is worth to mention that using name as a module global will
    bypass __getattr__. And this is intentional, otherwise calling
    __getattr__ for builtins will harm a performance.

Good point!

And please document idiomatic way of using a module global with triggering __getattr__. For example if you want to use a lazy loaded submodule.



    from . import foobar

The difference between them that the latter sets the module attribute, thus __getattr__ will be called only once.

        Backwards compatibility and impact on performance

    What is affect on pydoc, word completion, inspect, pkgutil, unittest?

This is rather gray area. I am not sure that we need to update them in any way, just the people who use __getattr__ should be aware that
some tools might not yet expect it.. I will add a note to the PEP about this.

This problem is not new, since it was possible to replace a module with a module subclass with overridden __getattr__ and __dir__ before, but now this problem can occur more often.

    I would create more standard helpers (for deprecation, for lazy
    importing). This feature is helpful not by itself, but because it
    will be used for implementing new features. Using __getattr__
    directly will need to write a boilerplate code. Maybe when
    implementing these helper you will discover that this PEP needs some

But in which module these helpers should live?

Good question. lazy_import() could be added in importlib (or importlib.util?). The helper that just adds deprecation on importing a name, could be added in importlib too. But I think that it would be better if the deprecated() helper will also create a wrapper that raises a deprecation warning on the use of deprecated function. It could be added in the warnings or functools modules.

I would add also a more general lazy_initialized(). It is something like cached module property. Executes the specified code on first use, and cache the result as a module attribute.

In all these cases the final __getattr__ method should be automatically constructed from different chunks. At the end it could call a user supplied __getattr__. Or maybe the module method __getattr__ should look first at special registry before calling the instance attribute __getattr__()?

    def ModuleType.__getattr__(self, name):
        if name in self.__properties__:
            call self.__properties__[name]()
        elif '__getattr__' in self.__dict__:
            call self.__dict__['__getattr__'](name)
            raise AttributeError

I'm wondering if the __set_name__ mechanism can be extended to modules. What if call the __set_name__() method for all items in a module dict after finishing importing the module?

--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)