PEP 487: Simpler customization of class creation
Hi list, just recently, I posted about the implementation of PEP 487. The discussion quickly diverted to PEP 520, which happened to be strongly related. Hoping to get some comments about the rest of PEP 487, I took out the part that is also in PEP 520. I attached the new version of the PEP. The implementation can be found on the Python issue tracker: http://bugs.python.org/issue27366 So PEP 487 is about simplifying the customization of class creation. Currently, this is done via metaclasses, which are very powerful, but often inflexible, as it is hard to combine two metaclasses. PEP 487 proposes a new metaclass which calls a method on all newly created subclasses. This way, in order to customize the creation of subclasses, one just needs to write a simple method. An absolutely classic example for metaclasses is the need to tell descriptors who they belong to. There are many large frameworks out there, e.g. enthought's traits, IPython's traitlets, Django's forms and many more. Their problem is: they're all fully incompatible. It's really hard to inherit from two classes which have different metaclasses. PEP 487 proposes to have one simple metaclass, which can do all those frameworks need, making them all compatible. As an example, imagine the framework has a generic descriptor called Integer, which describes, well, an integer. Typically you use it like that: class MyClass(FrameworkBaseClass): my_value = Integer() how does my_value know how it's called, how it should put its data into the object's __dict__? Well, this is what the framework's metaclass is for. With PEP 487, a framework doesn't need to declare an own metaclass anymore, but simply uses types.Object of PEP 487 as a base class: class FrameworkBaseClass(types.Object): def __init_subclass__(cls): super().__init_subclass__() for k, v in cls.__dict__.items(): if isinstance(v, FrameworkDescriptorBase): v.__set_owner__(cls, name) and all the framework's descriptors know their name. And if another framework should be used as well: no problem, they just work together easily. Actually, the above example is just that common, that PEP 487 includes it directly: a method __set_owner__ is called for every descriptor. That could make most descriptors in frameworks work out of the box. So now I am hoping for comments! Greetings Martin New version of the PEP follows: PEP: 487 Title: Simpler customisation of class creation Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Martin Teichmann <lkb.teichmann@gmail.com>, Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 27-Feb-2015 Python-Version: 3.6 Post-History: 27-Feb-2015, 5-Feb-2016, 24-Jun-2016 Replaces: 422 Abstract ======== Currently, customising class creation requires the use of a custom metaclass. This custom metaclass then persists for the entire lifecycle of the class, creating the potential for spurious metaclass conflicts. This PEP proposes to instead support a wide range of customisation scenarios through a new ``__init_subclass__`` hook in the class body, a hook to initialize attributes. Those hooks should at first be defined in a metaclass in the standard library, with the option that this metaclass eventually becomes the default ``type`` metaclass. The new mechanism should be easier to understand and use than implementing a custom metaclass, and thus should provide a gentler introduction to the full power Python's metaclass machinery. Background ========== Metaclasses are a powerful tool to customize class creation. They have, however, the problem that there is no automatic way to combine metaclasses. If one wants to use two metaclasses for a class, a new metaclass combining those two needs to be created, typically manually. This need often occurs as a surprise to a user: inheriting from two base classes coming from two different libraries suddenly raises the necessity to manually create a combined metaclass, where typically one is not interested in those details about the libraries at all. This becomes even worse if one library starts to make use of a metaclass which it has not done before. While the library itself continues to work perfectly, suddenly every code combining those classes with classes from another library fails. Proposal ======== While there are many possible ways to use a metaclass, the vast majority of use cases falls into just three categories: some initialization code running after class creation, the initalization of descriptors and keeping the order in which class attributes were defined. Those three use cases can easily be performed by just one metaclass. If this metaclass is put into the standard library, and all libraries that wish to customize class creation use this very metaclass, no combination of metaclasses is necessary anymore. Said metaclass should live in the ``types`` module under the name ``Type``. This should hint the user that in the future, this metaclass may become the default metaclass ``type``. The three use cases are achieved as follows: 1. The metaclass contains an ``__init_subclass__`` hook that initializes all subclasses of a given class, 2. the metaclass calls a ``__set_owner__`` hook on all the attribute (descriptors) defined in the class, and For ease of use, a base class ``types.Object`` is defined, which uses said metaclass and contains an empty stub for the hook described for use case 1. It will eventually become the new replacement for the standard ``object``. As an example, the first use case looks as follows::
class SpamBase(types.Object): ... # this is implicitly a @classmethod ... def __init_subclass__(cls, **kwargs): ... cls.class_args = kwargs ... super().__init_subclass__(cls, **kwargs)
class Spam(SpamBase, a=1, b="b"): ... pass
Spam.class_args {'a': 1, 'b': 'b'}
The base class ``types.Object`` contains an empty ``__init_subclass__`` method which serves as an endpoint for cooperative multiple inheritance. Note that this method has no keyword arguments, meaning that all methods which are more specialized have to process all keyword arguments. This general proposal is not a new idea (it was first suggested for inclusion in the language definition `more than 10 years ago`_, and a similar mechanism has long been supported by `Zope's ExtensionClass`_), but the situation has changed sufficiently in recent years that the idea is worth reconsidering for inclusion. The second part of the proposal adds an ``__set_owner__`` initializer for class attributes, especially if they are descriptors. Descriptors are defined in the body of a class, but they do not know anything about that class, they do not even know the name they are accessed with. They do get to know their owner once ``__get__`` is called, but still they do not know their name. This is unfortunate, for example they cannot put their associated value into their object's ``__dict__`` under their name, since they do not know that name. This problem has been solved many times, and is one of the most important reasons to have a metaclass in a library. While it would be easy to implement such a mechanism using the first part of the proposal, it makes sense to have one solution for this problem for everyone. To give an example of its usage, imagine a descriptor representing weak referenced values:: import weakref class WeakAttribute: def __get__(self, instance, owner): return instance.__dict__[self.name] def __set__(self, instance, value): instance.__dict__[self.name] = weakref.ref(value) # this is the new initializer: def __set_owner__(self, owner, name): self.name = name While this example looks very trivial, it should be noted that until now such an attribute cannot be defined without the use of a metaclass. And given that such a metaclass can make life very hard, this kind of attribute does not exist yet. Key Benefits ============ Easier inheritance of definition time behaviour ----------------------------------------------- Understanding Python's metaclasses requires a deep understanding of the type system and the class construction process. This is legitimately seen as challenging, due to the need to keep multiple moving parts (the code, the metaclass hint, the actual metaclass, the class object, instances of the class object) clearly distinct in your mind. Even when you know the rules, it's still easy to make a mistake if you're not being extremely careful. Understanding the proposed implicit class initialization hook only requires ordinary method inheritance, which isn't quite as daunting a task. The new hook provides a more gradual path towards understanding all of the phases involved in the class definition process. Reduced chance of metaclass conflicts ------------------------------------- One of the big issues that makes library authors reluctant to use metaclasses (even when they would be appropriate) is the risk of metaclass conflicts. These occur whenever two unrelated metaclasses are used by the desired parents of a class definition. This risk also makes it very difficult to *add* a metaclass to a class that has previously been published without one. By contrast, adding an ``__init_subclass__`` method to an existing type poses a similar level of risk to adding an ``__init__`` method: technically, there is a risk of breaking poorly implemented subclasses, but when that occurs, it is recognised as a bug in the subclass rather than the library author breaching backwards compatibility guarantees. A path of introduction into Python ================================== Most of the benefits of this PEP can already be implemented using a simple metaclass. For the ``__init_subclass__`` hook this works all the way down to Python 2.7, while the attribute order needs Python 3.0 to work. Such a class has been `uploaded to PyPI`_. The only drawback of such a metaclass are the mentioned problems with metaclasses and multiple inheritance. Two classes using such a metaclass can only be combined, if they use exactly the same such metaclass. This fact calls for the inclusion of such a class into the standard library, as ``types.Type``, with a ``types.Object`` base class using it. Once all users use this standard library metaclass, classes from different packages can easily be combined. But still such classes cannot be easily combined with other classes using other metaclasses. Authors of metaclasses should bear that in mind and inherit from the standard metaclass if it seems useful for users of the metaclass to add more functionality. Ultimately, if the need for combining with other metaclasses is strong enough, the proposed functionality may be introduced into Python's ``type``. Those arguments strongly hint to the following procedure to include the proposed functionality into Python: 1. The metaclass implementing this proposal is put onto PyPI, so that it can be used and scrutinized. 2. Introduce this class into the Python 3.6 standard library. 3. Consider this as the default behavior for Python 3.7. Steps 2 and 3 would be similar to how the ``set`` datatype was first introduced as ``sets.Set``, and only later made a builtin type (with a slightly different API) based on wider experiences with the ``sets`` module. While the metaclass is still in the standard library and not in the language, it may still clash with other metaclasses. The most prominent metaclass in use is probably ABCMeta. It is also a particularly good example for the need of combining metaclasses. For users who want to define a ABC with subclass initialization, we should support a ``types.ABCMeta`` class, or let ``abc.ABCMeta`` inherit from this PEP's metaclass. As it turns out, most of the behavior of ``abc.ABCMeta`` can be done achieved with our ``types.Type``, except its core behavior, ``__instancecheck__`` and ``__subclasscheck__`` which can be supplied, as per the definition of the Python language, exclusively in a metaclass. Extensions written in C or C++ also often define their own metaclass. It would be very useful if those could also inherit from the metaclass defined here, but this is probably not possible. New Ways of Using Classes ========================= This proposal has many usecases like the following. In the examples, we still inherit from the ``SubclassInit`` base class. This would become unnecessary once this PEP is included in Python directly. Subclass registration --------------------- Especially when writing a plugin system, one likes to register new subclasses of a plugin baseclass. This can be done as follows:: class PluginBase(Object): subclasses = [] def __init_subclass__(cls, **kwargs): super().__init_subclass__(**kwargs) cls.subclasses.append(cls) In this example, ``PluginBase.subclasses`` will contain a plain list of all subclasses in the entire inheritance tree. One should note that this also works nicely as a mixin class. Trait descriptors ----------------- There are many designs of Python descriptors in the wild which, for example, check boundaries of values. Often those "traits" need some support of a metaclass to work. This is how this would look like with this PEP:: class Trait: def __get__(self, instance, owner): return instance.__dict__[self.key] def __set__(self, instance, value): instance.__dict__[self.key] = value def __set_owner__(self, owner, name): self.key = name Rejected Design Options ======================= Calling the hook on the class itself ------------------------------------ Adding an ``__autodecorate__`` hook that would be called on the class itself was the proposed idea of PEP 422. Most examples work the same way or even better if the hook is called on the subclass. In general, it is much easier to explicitly call the hook on the class in which it is defined (to opt-in to such a behavior) than to opt-out, meaning that one does not want the hook to be called on the class it is defined in. This becomes most evident if the class in question is designed as a mixin: it is very unlikely that the code of the mixin is to be executed for the mixin class itself, as it is not supposed to be a complete class on its own. The original proposal also made major changes in the class initialization process, rendering it impossible to back-port the proposal to older Python versions. More importantly, having a pure Python implementation allows us to take two preliminary steps before before we actually change the interpreter, giving us the chance to iron out all possible wrinkles in the API. Other variants of calling the hook ---------------------------------- Other names for the hook were presented, namely ``__decorate__`` or ``__autodecorate__``. This proposal opts for ``__init_subclass__`` as it is very close to the ``__init__`` method, just for the subclass, while it is not very close to decorators, as it does not return the class. Requiring an explicit decorator on ``__init_subclass__`` -------------------------------------------------------- One could require the explicit use of ``@classmethod`` on the ``__init_subclass__`` decorator. It was made implicit since there's no sensible interpretation for leaving it out, and that case would need to be detected anyway in order to give a useful error message. This decision was reinforced after noticing that the user experience of defining ``__prepare__`` and forgetting the ``@classmethod`` method decorator is singularly incomprehensible (particularly since PEP 3115 documents it as an ordinary method, and the current documentation doesn't explicitly say anything one way or the other). Defining arbitrary namespaces ----------------------------- PEP 422 defined a generic way to add arbitrary namespaces for class definitions. This approach is much more flexible than just leaving the definition order in a tuple. The ``__prepare__`` method in a metaclass supports exactly this behavior. But given that effectively the only use cases that could be found out in the wild were the ``OrderedDict`` way of determining the attribute order, it seemed reasonable to only support this special case. The metaclass described in this PEP has been designed to be very simple such that it could be reasonably made the default metaclass. This was especially important when designing the attribute order functionality: This was a highly demanded feature and has been enabled through the ``__prepare__`` method of metaclasses. This method can be abused in very weird ways, making it hard to correctly maintain this feature in CPython. This is why it has been proposed to deprecated this feature, and instead use ``OrderedDict`` as the standard namespace, supporting the most important feature while dropping most of the complexity. But this would have meant that ``OrderedDict`` becomes a language builtin like dict and set, and not just a standard library class. The choice of the ``__attribute_order__`` tuple is a much simpler solution to the problem. A more ``__new__``-like hook ---------------------------- In PEP 422 the hook worked more like the ``__new__`` method than the ``__init__`` method, meaning that it returned a class instead of modifying one. This allows a bit more flexibility, but at the cost of much harder implementation and undesired side effects. Adding a class attribute with the attribute order ------------------------------------------------- This got its own PEP 520. History ======= This used to be a competing proposal to PEP 422 by Nick Coghlan and Daniel Urban. PEP 422 intended to achieve the same goals as this PEP, but with a different way of implementation. In the meantime, PEP 422 has been withdrawn favouring this approach. References ========== .. _published code: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-June/119878.html .. _more than 10 years ago: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-November/018651.html .. _Zope's ExtensionClass: http://docs.zope.org/zope_secrets/extensionclass.html .. _uploaded to PyPI: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/metaclass Copyright ========= This document has been placed in the public domain. .. Local Variables: mode: indented-text indent-tabs-mode: nil sentence-end-double-space: t fill-column: 70 coding: utf-8 End:
On 24 June 2016 at 00:41, Martin Teichmann <lkb.teichmann@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi list,
just recently, I posted about the implementation of PEP 487. The discussion quickly diverted to PEP 520, which happened to be strongly related.
Hoping to get some comments about the rest of PEP 487, I took out the part that is also in PEP 520.
Good idea :) =========================
Proposal ========
While there are many possible ways to use a metaclass, the vast majority of use cases falls into just three categories: some initialization code running after class creation, the initalization of descriptors and keeping the order in which class attributes were defined.
Those three use cases can easily be performed by just one metaclass.
This section needs to be tweaked a bit to defer to PEP 520 for discussion of the 3rd case.
If this metaclass is put into the standard library, and all libraries that wish to customize class creation use this very metaclass, no combination of metaclasses is necessary anymore. Said metaclass should live in the ``types`` module under the name ``Type``. This should hint the user that in the future, this metaclass may become the default metaclass ``type``.
As long as the PEP still proposes phased integration into the standard library and builtins (more on that below) I'd suggest being explicit here in the proposal section that the non-default metaclasses in the standard library (abc.ABCMeta and enum.EnumMeta) should be updated to inherit from the new types.Type.
The three use cases are achieved as follows:
"The three ..." -> "These ..."
1. The metaclass contains an ``__init_subclass__`` hook that initializes all subclasses of a given class, 2. the metaclass calls a ``__set_owner__`` hook on all the attribute (descriptors) defined in the class, and
This part isn't entirely clear to me, so you may want to give some Python pseudo-code that: - is explicit regarding exactly when this new code runs in the type creation process - whether the __set_owner__ hooks are called before or after __init_subclass__ runs, or only when the subclass calls up to super().__init_subclass__, and the implications of each choice (either descriptors see a partially initialised class object, or init_subclass sees partially initialised descriptor objects, or that choice is delegated to individual subclasses) - how the list of objects to be checked for "__set_owner__" methods is retrieved (presumably via "ns.items()" on the class definition namespace, but the PEP should be explicit) For the second point, my personal preference would be for descriptors to have their owner set first and independently of __init_subclass__ super calls (as it seems more likely that __init_subclass__ will depend on having access to fully initialised descriptors than the other way around).
Reduced chance of metaclass conflicts -------------------------------------
One of the big issues that makes library authors reluctant to use metaclasses (even when they would be appropriate) is the risk of metaclass conflicts. These occur whenever two unrelated metaclasses are used by the desired parents of a class definition. This risk also makes it very difficult to *add* a metaclass to a class that has previously been published without one.
By contrast, adding an ``__init_subclass__`` method to an existing type poses a similar level of risk to adding an ``__init__`` method: technically, there is a risk of breaking poorly implemented subclasses, but when that occurs, it is recognised as a bug in the subclass rather than the library author breaching backwards compatibility guarantees.
This section needs some additional explanation of how it fares given the proposed migration plan below. I *think* it would be fine, assuming that in 3.7, the types module gains the lines: Type = type Object = object As that would collapse the hierarchy again, even for classes that had declared inheritance from types.Object or the direct use of types.Type as their metaclass in 3.6 Honestly though, I'm not sure this additional user-visible complexity is worth it - "The default type metaclass has this new behaviour" is a lot easier to document and explain than "We added a new opt-in alternate metaclass that you can use if you want, and in the next version that will just become an alias for the builtin types again". We'd also end up being stuck with types.Type and types.Object as aliases for the type and object builtins forever (with the associated "How does 'class name:' or 'class name(object)' differ from 'class name(types.Object)'?" question and "It doesn't, unless you're using Python 3.6" answer for folks learning the language for the first time). If we decide __init_subclass__ and __set_owner__ are good ideas, let's just implement them, with a backport available on PyPI for folks that want to use them on earlier versions, including in Python 2/3 compatible code.
A path of introduction into Python ==================================
Most of the benefits of this PEP can already be implemented using a simple metaclass. For the ``__init_subclass__`` hook this works all the way down to Python 2.7, while the attribute order needs Python 3.0 to work. Such a class has been `uploaded to PyPI`_.
This paragraph should refer to just __init_subclass__ and __set_owner__ now, since the attribute ordering problem has been moved out to PEP 520. [snip: see above for further comments on why I think this additional complexity in the migration plan might not be worth it]
Rejected Design Options ======================= Defining arbitrary namespaces -----------------------------
PEP 422 defined a generic way to add arbitrary namespaces for class definitions. This approach is much more flexible than just leaving the definition order in a tuple. The ``__prepare__`` method in a metaclass supports exactly this behavior. But given that effectively the only use cases that could be found out in the wild were the ``OrderedDict`` way of determining the attribute order, it seemed reasonable to only support this special case.
Since it isn't tackling definition order any more, this section can now be left out of this PEP. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan@gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly though, I'm not sure this additional user-visible complexity is worth it - "The default type metaclass has this new behaviour" is a lot easier to document and explain than "We added a new opt-in alternate metaclass that you can use if you want, and in the next version that will just become an alias for the builtin types again". We'd also end up being stuck with types.Type and types.Object as aliases for the type and object builtins forever (with the associated "How does 'class name:' or 'class name(object)' differ from 'class name(types.Object)'?" question and "It doesn't, unless you're using Python 3.6" answer for folks learning the language for the first time).
If we decide __init_subclass__ and __set_owner__ are good ideas, let's just implement them, with a backport available on PyPI for folks that want to use them on earlier versions, including in Python 2/3 compatible code.
+1 Could you clarify the value of the staged approach over jumping straight to changing builtins.type? -eric
I think in any case Type is a bad name, since we now have typing.Type (and it is completely different) I could imagine a lot of confusion. -- Ivan On 25 June 2016 at 00:17, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan@gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly though, I'm not sure this additional user-visible complexity is worth it - "The default type metaclass has this new behaviour" is a lot easier to document and explain than "We added a new opt-in alternate metaclass that you can use if you want, and in the next version that will just become an alias for the builtin types again". We'd also end up being stuck with types.Type and types.Object as aliases for the type and object builtins forever (with the associated "How does 'class name:' or 'class name(object)' differ from 'class name(types.Object)'?" question and "It doesn't, unless you're using Python 3.6" answer for folks learning the language for the first time).
If we decide __init_subclass__ and __set_owner__ are good ideas, let's just implement them, with a backport available on PyPI for folks that want to use them on earlier versions, including in Python 2/3 compatible code.
+1
Could you clarify the value of the staged approach over jumping straight to changing builtins.type?
-eric _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/levkivskyi%40gmail.com
Hi Nick, hi List, thanks for the good comments! I'll update the PEP and the implementation soon, as discussed at the end, I'll do it in C this time. For now just some quick responses:
This part isn't entirely clear to me, so you may want to give some Python pseudo-code that:
I will actually give the actual code, it's just 10 lines, that should be understandable.
- is explicit regarding exactly when this new code runs in the type creation process - whether the __set_owner__ hooks are called before or after __init_subclass__ runs, or only when the subclass calls up to super().__init_subclass__, and the implications of each choice (either descriptors see a partially initialised class object, or init_subclass sees partially initialised descriptor objects, or that choice is delegated to individual subclasses) - how the list of objects to be checked for "__set_owner__" methods is retrieved (presumably via "ns.items()" on the class definition namespace, but the PEP should be explicit)
For the second point, my personal preference would be for descriptors to have their owner set first and independently of __init_subclass__ super calls (as it seems more likely that __init_subclass__ will depend on having access to fully initialised descriptors than the other way around).
I intuitively programmed it the other way around, but I get your point and will change it. I agree that it should not be done in super().__init_subclass__ as people often forget to call it, or do weird things.
Honestly though, I'm not sure this additional user-visible complexity is worth it - "The default type metaclass has this new behaviour" is a lot easier to document and explain than "We added a new opt-in alternate metaclass that you can use if you want, and in the next version that will just become an alias for the builtin types again". We'd also end up being stuck with types.Type and types.Object as aliases for the type and object builtins forever (with the associated "How does 'class name:' or 'class name(object)' differ from 'class name(types.Object)'?" question and "It doesn't, unless you're using Python 3.6" answer for folks learning the language for the first time).
My idea with a stepped approach was to have a chance to look how people use the feature, so that when we make it standard eventually we actually get it right. In the end, this is a maintainability question. I am fully OK with following experienced core developers here, so if the general idea here is that a two-step approach is not needed, then no problem, let's do it in the Python core directly! Greetings Martin
One of the big issues that makes library authors reluctant to use metaclasses (even when they would be appropriate) is the risk of metaclass conflicts.
Really? I've written and reviewed a lot of metaclasses and this has never worried me. The problem is limited to multiple inheritance, right? I worry a lot about MI being imposed on classes that weren't written with MI in mind, but I've never particularly worried about the special case of metaclasses. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
Hi Guido, sorry I missed your post...
One of the big issues that makes library authors reluctant to use metaclasses (even when they would be appropriate) is the risk of metaclass conflicts.
Really? I've written and reviewed a lot of metaclasses and this has never worried me. The problem is limited to multiple inheritance, right? I worry a lot about MI being imposed on classes that weren't written with MI in mind, but I've never particularly worried about the special case of metaclasses.
Yes, the problem only arises with MI. Unfortunately, that's not uncommon: if you want to implement an ABC with a class from a framework which uses metaclasses, you have a metaclass conflict. So then you start making MyFrameworkABCMeta-classes. The worst is if you already have a framework with users out there. No way you add a metaclass to your class, however convenient it would be. Because you never now if some user out there had gotten the idea to implement an ABC with it. Sure, you could let your metaclass inherit from ABCMeta, but is this really how it should be done? (This has already been mentioned by others over at python-ideas: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2016-February/038506.html) Greetings Martin
OK, I see this point now. Still looking for time to review the rest of your PEP! --Guido (mobile) On Jul 3, 2016 3:29 PM, "Martin Teichmann" <lkb.teichmann@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guido,
sorry I missed your post...
One of the big issues that makes library authors reluctant to use metaclasses (even when they would be appropriate) is the risk of metaclass conflicts.
Really? I've written and reviewed a lot of metaclasses and this has never worried me. The problem is limited to multiple inheritance, right? I worry a lot about MI being imposed on classes that weren't written with MI in mind, but I've never particularly worried about the special case of metaclasses.
Yes, the problem only arises with MI. Unfortunately, that's not uncommon: if you want to implement an ABC with a class from a framework which uses metaclasses, you have a metaclass conflict. So then you start making MyFrameworkABCMeta-classes.
The worst is if you already have a framework with users out there. No way you add a metaclass to your class, however convenient it would be. Because you never now if some user out there had gotten the idea to implement an ABC with it. Sure, you could let your metaclass inherit from ABCMeta, but is this really how it should be done?
(This has already been mentioned by others over at python-ideas: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2016-February/038506.html)
Greetings
Martin _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org
participants (6)
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Eric Snow
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Guido van Rossum
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Guido van Rossum
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Ivan Levkivskyi
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Martin Teichmann
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Nick Coghlan