A ban from Core Developer spaces.
All, After some consideration at our weekly meeting (this monday), and a recommendation from the Conduct WG (last friday), the Steering Council has decided to ban Marco Sulla from all Core Developer spaces for at least a year. (For the record, Brett abstained from voting on this issue.) We also agreed to add Ethan to the python-dev moderators, who's already taken the more specific action of banning Marco from python-dev for 3 months. If anyone else is interested in assisting with moderation on python-dev, please let us know. Marco wasn't solely responsible for how bad some of the discussion went, but his messages were the ones that clearly crossed the line, both in tone and in language, and it isn't the first time; as he's already pointed out, he was previously banned from discuss.python.org for the same kind of behaviour. We do want to admonish and encourage everyone who participated in the discussions to reconsider their posts. We've heard from quite a lot of people how badly the whole conversation was viewed, and how much it alienated people -- both potential new contributors and old hands on python-dev. We've said before that this behaviour has to stop, and we do mean it. At this point we need to have a larger discussion about the future of python-dev, but we want to handle that separately from this particular incident. We’ll think a bit more about what the options are, and start a separate discussion about it later this week. For the whole SC, Thomas. -- Thomas Wouters <thomas@python.org> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me spread!
Hi Thomas, Could I ask a bit about the thinking behind extending the ban to a year? A year is a long time and to me feels similar to asking someone to go away and never come back. It's much longer than is needed to go away and think about things. Re the future of python-dev: That sounds a bit ominous. Is the Steering Council considering removing python-dev? Eek. Yours sincerely, Simon Cross
On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 12:10 AM Simon Cross <hodgestar+pythondev@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't view it as an extension as much as Ethan took immediate action while the SC was simultaneously working on what to do about the situation. So they were separate actions and the SC's action happened to be longer and broader.
Marco was given a previous 3 month suspension on discuss.python.org (as Marco himself pointed out on the email thread in question). Speaking for myself, Marco was given a chance previously to take some time to think about how he approached communicating and it didn't seem to be enough time. I will also note that Marco publicly asked me to ban him for life in one of his emails in the thread as well.
Re the future of python-dev: That sounds a bit ominous. Is the Steering Council considering removing python-dev? Eek.
I am purposefully not replying to this as I don't want to spark a conversation on this topic in this email thread. -Brett
Hi Brett, Thank you for the quick reply. On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 8:58 PM Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
Marco was given a previous 3 month suspension on discuss.python.org (as Marco himself pointed out on the email thread in question). Speaking for myself, Marco was given a chance previously to take some time to think about how he approached communicating and it didn't seem to be enough time.
"A three month suspension was tried and didn't result in a better outcome" seems a solid reason for issuing a different suspension this time. Thank you for the background & explanation.
I will also note that Marco publicly asked me to ban him for life in one of his emails in the thread as well.
It seemed clear to me that Marco's statement was intended as a criticism of the banning process, or perhaps a request to be martyred. Either way, not really a good reason to impose or not impose a particular ban. Re python-dev's future:
I am purposefully not replying to this as I don't want to spark a conversation on this topic in this email thread.
Fair enough -- one topic per thread. However, as someone who engages primarily through python-dev, I would like some sort of more open debate on it's future on the list before anything drastic happens to it. /me heads off to sleep. - Simon
Hi, I collected past events about bans and code of conduct incidents in the Python community: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/diversity.html#python-code-of-conduct-bans It may help some people to see how bans and incidents are handled in Python. See also the https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/community.html page. Contact me in private (no need to spam this public list) if you would like helping me to complete this list ;-) Victor
Hi Thomas, Could I ask a bit about the thinking behind extending the ban to a year? A year is a long time and to me feels similar to asking someone to go away and never come back. It's much longer than is needed to go away and think about things. Re the future of python-dev: That sounds a bit ominous. Is the Steering Council considering removing python-dev? Eek. Yours sincerely, Simon Cross
On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 12:10 AM Simon Cross <hodgestar+pythondev@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't view it as an extension as much as Ethan took immediate action while the SC was simultaneously working on what to do about the situation. So they were separate actions and the SC's action happened to be longer and broader.
Marco was given a previous 3 month suspension on discuss.python.org (as Marco himself pointed out on the email thread in question). Speaking for myself, Marco was given a chance previously to take some time to think about how he approached communicating and it didn't seem to be enough time. I will also note that Marco publicly asked me to ban him for life in one of his emails in the thread as well.
Re the future of python-dev: That sounds a bit ominous. Is the Steering Council considering removing python-dev? Eek.
I am purposefully not replying to this as I don't want to spark a conversation on this topic in this email thread. -Brett
Hi Brett, Thank you for the quick reply. On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 8:58 PM Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
Marco was given a previous 3 month suspension on discuss.python.org (as Marco himself pointed out on the email thread in question). Speaking for myself, Marco was given a chance previously to take some time to think about how he approached communicating and it didn't seem to be enough time.
"A three month suspension was tried and didn't result in a better outcome" seems a solid reason for issuing a different suspension this time. Thank you for the background & explanation.
I will also note that Marco publicly asked me to ban him for life in one of his emails in the thread as well.
It seemed clear to me that Marco's statement was intended as a criticism of the banning process, or perhaps a request to be martyred. Either way, not really a good reason to impose or not impose a particular ban. Re python-dev's future:
I am purposefully not replying to this as I don't want to spark a conversation on this topic in this email thread.
Fair enough -- one topic per thread. However, as someone who engages primarily through python-dev, I would like some sort of more open debate on it's future on the list before anything drastic happens to it. /me heads off to sleep. - Simon
Hi, I collected past events about bans and code of conduct incidents in the Python community: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/diversity.html#python-code-of-conduct-bans It may help some people to see how bans and incidents are handled in Python. See also the https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/community.html page. Contact me in private (no need to spam this public list) if you would like helping me to complete this list ;-) Victor
participants (4)
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Brett Cannon -
Simon Cross -
Thomas Wouters -
Victor Stinner