Finding Guido's replacement
Guido's term as Benevolent Dictator For Life has been a long one, but in the wake of his resignation, we have an opportunity to correct some fundamental flaws in the system. Among them: * Guido lacks patience, as evidenced by the brevity of his acceptance posts. See https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-December/151038.html and https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-November/114545.html and particularly https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-May/144646.html where Guido specifically cites his own lack of patience. * Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media. * Finally, "For Life" is far too long. We need to change our rulers periodically. I propose a new way to appoint a project head. All candidates shall be flown to an island owned by the Python Secret Underground (which emphatically does NOT exist, but an island that would be owned by it if it did), whereupon they parachute down, search for guns, and proceed to fight each other until only one is left alive. The survivor shall be treated to a chicken dinner and proclaimed Patient, Understanding, Benevolent Governor, a title which shall be retained for one fortnight, after which we repeat the exercise. If this plan meets with broad approval, I shall write up PEP 3401, in honour of the prior art in PEP 401. ChrisA
Whatever you decide, please research existing practices and their results so as not to repeat the same mistakes as others made before you. In particular, http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/BenevolentDictator and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern . It would be a waste if Python falls victim to the same trapping as thousands before it. On 22.07.2018 23:12, Chris Angelico wrote:
Guido's term as Benevolent Dictator For Life has been a long one, but in the wake of his resignation, we have an opportunity to correct some fundamental flaws in the system. Among them:
* Guido lacks patience, as evidenced by the brevity of his acceptance posts. See https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-December/151038.html and https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-November/114545.html and particularly https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-May/144646.html where Guido specifically cites his own lack of patience.
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
* Finally, "For Life" is far too long. We need to change our rulers periodically.
I propose a new way to appoint a project head. All candidates shall be flown to an island owned by the Python Secret Underground (which emphatically does NOT exist, but an island that would be owned by it if it did), whereupon they parachute down, search for guns, and proceed to fight each other until only one is left alive. The survivor shall be treated to a chicken dinner and proclaimed Patient, Understanding, Benevolent Governor, a title which shall be retained for one fortnight, after which we repeat the exercise.
If this plan meets with broad approval, I shall write up PEP 3401, in honour of the prior art in PEP 401.
ChrisA _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vano%40mail.mipt.ru
-- Regards, Ivan
sometimes back after the event the BDFL1 said that "the new BDFL might be less demanding" hint to an imminent new one? i won't tell much the core devs (not all) have already shown their preferences fun fact: weirdly enough after BDFL1 took a vac (for life?), google made it's appearance on the mailing list THE NEED FOR CENTRAL AUTHORITY there is an absolute need for a central coordinator. the main threat to open source projects is politics. when you have someone to settle stuffs, fine you move on PROCEDURE OF ACCEPTANCE since BDFL1 is still alive, that saves the community some trouble. he is i presume aware of py-related stuffs and his choosing of a successor is a most viable option PREMISE OF CHOICE the choice should be made in consultation with the core devs as they are recognised members of the community based on their contributions. the core devs should orient the choice, they in themselves have not the power to veto, topple or reverse the decision. in the unlikely case of complete unfavouritism, the BDFL1 can pursue further CORE DEVS AS COMMITTEE the above hints to the core devs as a body in itself, beyond programming VALIDITY OF CHOICE the choice of BDFL1 must be acknowledged by the community. psf members should vote of whether they like the choice or not, fir it is the users who make the language valuable. by psf members, reference is made to the basic type of membership, open to all py programmers who have agreed to the psf rules. in case of non agreement, the process is to be repeated CRITICISM OF THE BDFLs BY FORMER AND LATTER ONES no BFFL shall criticise others. in case of non-acceptance of actions, a PHA shall be submitted PHA a Python Halt Appeal is a document submitted to the current core devs and the current BDFL to halt a specific activity considered "nuisible" to the growth and development of python. in case of majority acceptance of the core devs, it shall be accepted THE NEED FOR ALTERNATIVE NAMING OF DICTATOR OR EMPHASISING THE MEANING the python leader if he has absolute power should not be questioned or should not be made to back out as his appointment is by definition CITING THIS DOCUMENT / LICENSE this mail can be freely used, modified or built upon provided that attribution is made to the author in clear ways with no obfuscation whatsoever Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius
not googler i mean google. they requested a change to a pep Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius
As the Googler who appeared on the mailing list, I can say this was just a coincidence. I was a bit nervous no one would respond though, given Guido's vacation :)
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 12:27 PM Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer < arj.python@gmail.com> wrote:
not googler i mean google. they requested a change to a pep
"They"? nah. "Google LLC" did not request anything. People who happen to be working for Google on a Google owned project asked a question seeking clarification / codification of some details. There is nothing more to read into that. Adam was merely introducing himself by stating some background info as he hasn't participated on the list much in the past. -gps | destroyer of conspiracies PS The number of core devs / committers who are Googlers has been high for well over a decade (myself included). As is true for many other large open source friendly companies as well. I believe Microsoft has the most *active* committers employed at the moment.
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius
As the Googler who appeared on the mailing list, I can say this was just a
coincidence. I was a bit nervous no one would respond though, given Guido's vacation :)
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/greg%40krypto.org
On 7/24/2018 4:32 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 12:27 PM Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer <arj.python@gmail.com <mailto:arj.python@gmail.com>> wrote:
not googler i mean google. they requested a change to a pep
"They"? nah. "Google LLC" did not request anything. People who happen to be working for Google on a Google owned project asked a question seeking clarification / codification of some details. There is nothing more to read into that. Adam was merely introducing himself by stating some background info as he hasn't participated on the list much in the past.
-gps | destroyer of conspiracies
PS The number of core devs / committers who are Googlers has been high for well over a decade (myself included). As is true for many other large open source friendly companies as well. I believe Microsoft has the most /active/ committers employed at the moment.
I think we should be concerned that fully 1/3 of True Blade's staff are core developers. Why are they so interested in Python? What nefarious end could possibly motivate them to devote so many company resources to its development? Eric VP, True Blade
woops googler is a person working at google saw google-er, someone who googles Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
This accusation is ridiculous and not appreciated. Type hinting is one of the most praised Python features in pretty much any big company, where managing millions of lines of Python is challenging. Next time, I also suggest you to cite and name your 'reliable reporting sources' otherwise this is just bs. Yury -- Yury
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:47:25 +0300 Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
This accusation is ridiculous and not appreciated. Type hinting is one of the most praised Python features in pretty much any big company, where managing millions of lines of Python is challenging. Next time, I also suggest you to cite and name your 'reliable reporting sources' otherwise this is just bs.
I suspect Chris A. was merely joking, though I'm not sure what the joke ultimately is supposed to be about. Regards Antoine.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:03 PM Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
I suspect Chris A. was merely joking, though I'm not sure what the joke ultimately is supposed to be about.
Ah, right, I stopped reading his email after the quoted line. Well executed. Yury
-- Yury
Hi! On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:47:25AM +0300, Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
This accusation is ridiculous and not appreciated.
Yury, the entire message from Chris was a joke. Of bad taste, in my opinion. And I also didn't get initially that it was a joke, it took me a few minutes to understand.
Yury -- Yury
Oleg. -- Oleg Broytman https://phdru.name/ phd@phdru.name Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:07 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd@phdru.name> wrote:
Hi!
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:47:25AM +0300, Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
This accusation is ridiculous and not appreciated.
Yury, the entire message from Chris was a joke. Of bad taste, in my opinion. And I also didn't get initially that it was a joke, it took me a few minutes to understand.
If the reference to PEP 401 didn't tip you off and you don't recognize the references to famous Battle Royale games, then perhaps the fact that I called social media "reliable" might have been a good hint that I wasn't being entirely serious? ChrisA
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 08:37:05PM +1000, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:07 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd@phdru.name> wrote:
I also didn't get initially that it was a joke, it took me a few minutes to understand.
If the reference to PEP 401 didn't tip you off and you don't recognize the references to famous Battle Royale games, then perhaps the fact that I called social media "reliable" might have been a good hint that I wasn't being entirely serious?
I was sure you've been serious until I got to the last paragraph.
ChrisA
Oleg. -- Oleg Broytman https://phdru.name/ phd@phdru.name Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Please, take this thread off-list. Nobody is interested in you explaining a joke. On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:37:05 +1000 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:07 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd@phdru.name> wrote:
Hi!
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:47:25AM +0300, Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
This accusation is ridiculous and not appreciated.
Yury, the entire message from Chris was a joke. Of bad taste, in my opinion. And I also didn't get initially that it was a joke, it took me a few minutes to understand.
If the reference to PEP 401 didn't tip you off and you don't recognize the references to famous Battle Royale games, then perhaps the fact that I called social media "reliable" might have been a good hint that I wasn't being entirely serious?
ChrisA
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
Guido's term as Benevolent Dictator For Life has been a long one, but in the wake of his resignation, we have an opportunity to correct some fundamental flaws in the system. Among them:
* Guido lacks patience, as evidenced by the brevity of his acceptance posts. See https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-December/151038.html and https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-November/114545.html and particularly https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-May/144646.html where Guido specifically cites his own lack of patience.
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
* Finally, "For Life" is far too long. We need to change our rulers periodically.
I propose a new way to appoint a project head. All candidates shall be flown to an island owned by the Python Secret Underground (which emphatically does NOT exist, but an island that would be owned by it if it did), whereupon they parachute down, search for guns, and proceed to fight each other until only one is left alive. The survivor shall be treated to a chicken dinner and proclaimed Patient, Understanding, Benevolent Governor, a title which shall be retained for one fortnight, after which we repeat the exercise.
If this plan meets with broad approval, I shall write up PEP 3401, in honour of the prior art in PEP 401.
For those who didn't pick up on ANY of the hints: THE ABOVE WAS A JOKE. Please do not take it seriously. I apologize for assuming that people would think this funny, which was an error of judgement on my part. Finding Guido's replacement is being handled seriously elsewhere, not here, and would not be done in any manner akin to the above. ChrisA
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
Guido's term as Benevolent Dictator For Life has been a long one, but in the wake of his resignation, we have an opportunity to correct some fundamental flaws in the system. Among them:
* Guido lacks patience, as evidenced by the brevity of his acceptance posts. See https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-December/151038.html and https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-November/114545.html and particularly https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-May/144646.html where Guido specifically cites his own lack of patience.
* Lately, all Guido's actions have been to benefit his employer, not the Common Pythonista. We have proof of this from reliable reporting sources such as Twitter and social media.
* Finally, "For Life" is far too long. We need to change our rulers periodically.
I propose a new way to appoint a project head. All candidates shall be flown to an island owned by the Python Secret Underground (which emphatically does NOT exist, but an island that would be owned by it if it did), whereupon they parachute down, search for guns, and proceed to fight each other until only one is left alive. The survivor shall be treated to a chicken dinner and proclaimed Patient, Understanding, Benevolent Governor, a title which shall be retained for one fortnight, after which we repeat the exercise.
If this plan meets with broad approval, I shall write up PEP 3401, in honour of the prior art in PEP 401.
More specifically: It has been brought to my attention that the content of this post may have been offensive to some. This was NOT my intention, and for this I apologize. It was a failed attempt to make people laugh, and I did not want at any time to cause pain. Please accept my apologies, and the withdrawal of the jest. ChrisA
participants (10)
-
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer -
Adam Cataldo -
Antoine Pitrou -
Chris Angelico -
Eric Fahlgren -
Eric V. Smith -
Gregory P. Smith -
Ivan Pozdeev -
Oleg Broytman -
Yury Selivanov