PEP 11: Drop support for AIX releases without dlopen
Python has supported using dynload_shlib (using dlopen) on AIX since https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/c19c5a62aef7dce0e8147655b0d2f087965... in 2003. This is also about the time that AIX 4.3 went out of support, which is believed to be the AIX release that added support for dlopen. Considering it is now 20ish years later and in this time, every supported AIX release has had dlopen support, I suspect nobody has used or tested this code path in quite some time. I propose removing this support under PEP 11. For reference, I opened https://bugs.python.org/issue42030 and changes were merged in https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22717. I opened a PR to update PEP 11 in https://github.com/python/peps/issues/1653, but was told this needed discussion here. Sorry if this didn't quite follow the process correctly, I thought I had things in the right order, but I guess not. Also apologies if this is a duplicate, but my first message appears to have been lost/eaten (possibly a first-time moderation queue?).
As far as I am aware, we already dropped support for AIX 5.3<=. See https://bugs.python.org/issue40680 for details. On 16.10.2020 23:15, Kevin Adler wrote:
Python has supported using dynload_shlib (using dlopen) on AIX since https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/c19c5a62aef7dce0e8147655b0d2f087965... in 2003. This is also about the time that AIX 4.3 went out of support, which is believed to be the AIX release that added support for dlopen. Considering it is now 20ish years later and in this time, every supported AIX release has had dlopen support, I suspect nobody has used or tested this code path in quite some time. I propose removing this support under PEP 11.
For reference, I opened https://bugs.python.org/issue42030 and changes were merged in https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22717. I opened a PR to update PEP 11 in https://github.com/python/peps/issues/1653, but was told this needed discussion here. Sorry if this didn't quite follow the process correctly, I thought I had things in the right order, but I guess not. Also apologies if this is a duplicate, but my first message appears to have been lost/eaten (possibly a first-time moderation queue?). _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7QVLHW36... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Interesting. Given that, shouldn't PEP 11 be updated with that change? Seems to me that PEP 11 only documents platforms with *official support*, so is AIX officially supported? The comment in the issue would indicate it is not officially supported, but it _is_ listed here: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html#python-platforms Batuhan Taskaya wrote:
As far as I am aware, we already dropped support for AIX 5.3<=. See https://bugs.python.org/issue40680 for details.
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 2:52 PM Kevin Adler
Interesting. Given that, shouldn't PEP 11 be updated with that change? Seems to me that PEP 11 only documents platforms with *official support*, so is AIX officially supported? The comment in the issue would indicate it is not officially supported
AIX is not officially supported. We have tried to be helpful and add/remove things over the years related to AIX (we used to have an external contributor who actively tried to keep AIX supported), but we don't guarantee things work since there is no core dev available to try and keep AIX running.
, but it _is_ listed here: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html#python-platforms
That is not an official Python website. -Brett
Batuhan Taskaya wrote:
As far as I am aware, we already dropped support for AIX 5.3<=. See https://bugs.python.org/issue40680 for details.
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Brett Cannon wrote:
AIX is not officially supported. We have tried to be helpful and add/remove things over the years related to AIX (we used to have an external contributor who actively tried to keep AIX supported), but we don't guarantee things work since there is no core dev available to try and keep AIX running.
Ok, so given that AIX is not officially supported, should PEP 11 be updated? The change I made to drop dynload_aix may not be worth documenting there, but perhaps dropping support AIX 5.3 and below (as stated in https://bugs.python.org/issue40680) would be.
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 2:06 PM Kevin Adler
Brett Cannon wrote:
AIX is not officially supported. We have tried to be helpful and add/remove things over the years related to AIX (we used to have an external contributor who actively tried to keep AIX supported), but we don't guarantee things work since there is no core dev available to try and keep AIX running.
Ok, so given that AIX is not officially supported, should PEP 11 be updated?
Updated how? AIX is not mentioned in that PEP anywhere, so I'm not quite sure what update you're suggesting.
The change I made to drop dynload_aix may not be worth documenting there, but perhaps dropping support AIX 5.3 and below (as stated in https://bugs.python.org/issue40680) would be.
Possibly if IBM isn't supporting that version anymore (and based on your email I would assume you would know 😉).
Brett Cannon wrote:
Updated how? AIX is not mentioned in that PEP anywhere, so I'm not quite sure what update you're suggesting.
I'm referring to https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/#unsupporting-platforms. "If a certain platform that currently has special code in CPython is deemed to be without enough Python users or lacks proper support from the Python development team and/or a buildbot, a note must be posted in this PEP that this platform is no longer actively supported." https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/#no-longer-supported-platforms Should this list be updated to mention that AIX 5.3 and below are no longer supported?
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kevin Adler
Brett Cannon wrote:
Updated how? AIX is not mentioned in that PEP anywhere, so I'm not quite sure what update you're suggesting.
I'm referring to https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/#unsupporting-platforms.
"If a certain platform that currently has special code in CPython is deemed to be without enough Python users or lacks proper support from the Python development team and/or a buildbot, a note must be posted in this PEP that this platform is no longer actively supported."
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/#no-longer-supported-platforms
Should this list be updated to mention that AIX 5.3 and below are no longer supported?
Only if we are going to rip out all AIX-related code.
Brett Cannon wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kevin Adler kadler@linux.vnet.ibm.com wrote:
Should this list be updated to mention that AIX 5.3 and below are no longer supported? Only if we are going to rip out all AIX-related code.
Ok. Looking through the history, I think I found an equivalent change to model after: when support for FreeBSD 9 and older was removed. https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/13ff24582c99dfb439b1af7295b401415e7...
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:10 AM Kevin Adler
Brett Cannon wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kevin Adler kadler@linux.vnet.ibm.com wrote:
Should this list be updated to mention that AIX 5.3 and below are no longer supported? Only if we are going to rip out all AIX-related code.
Ok. Looking through the history, I think I found an equivalent change to model after: when support for FreeBSD 9 and older was removed.
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/13ff24582c99dfb439b1af7295b401415e7...
Yes, but that's because we have historically considered FreeBSD supported (there's a buildbot and core devs have been willing to keep it working).
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Le ven. 16 oct. 2020 à 22:35, Kevin Adler
Python has supported using dynload_shlib (using dlopen) on AIX since https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/c19c5a62aef7dce0e8147655b0d2f087965... in 2003. This is also about the time that AIX 4.3 went out of support, which is believed to be the AIX release that added support for dlopen. Considering it is now 20ish years later and in this time, every supported AIX release has had dlopen support, I suspect nobody has used or tested this code path in quite some time.
Kevin's PR was merged: Python/dynload_aix.c was removed by
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/1dd6d956a3ddf2cf6d4a69241dba8cd1379...
As Brett said, there is no need to update the PEP 11.
Le ven. 16 oct. 2020 à 23:50, Kevin Adler
The comment in the issue would indicate it is not officially supported, but it _is_ listed here: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html#python-platforms
I'm the author of this website. I updated https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html to move the sys.platform and os.name table at the end to avoid confusion. I also replaced "AIX" with "AIX 6". I wrote this page to help me track which platforms are supported or not, since there is no clear summary of what is supported or not. Only scattered information, sometimes referencing to OS lifecycle that I fail to track. AIX is listed in "Supported platform with best effort support". In short, if someone provides a patch, maybe someone will review and merge it. But there is no willingness to actively support AIX for now, at least from core developers. There are two AIX buildbots which are frequently broken. I'm reporting issues but no one fixes them. Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
participants (4)
-
Batuhan Taskaya -
Brett Cannon -
Kevin Adler -
Victor Stinner