Thanks, that's the context I was missing! Package management is hard. No wonder some folks try to bypass the whole thing and use Docker images instead. :-( On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 8:56 AM Christian Heimes wrote:

On 18/05/2021 16.19, Guido van Rossum wrote:

...

There are a few mentions of Debian, but no explanation of what the issue is about. Can you elaborate on that?

Debian and Debian-based distros like Ubuntu are applying downstream packages and split CPython interpreter and stdlib into multiple packages. For example venv and distutils is split out and ensurepip is patched out. Debian packages were also missing dependencies on ca-certificates and tzdata, which are required for Python's ssl and zoneinfo modules. The changes caused usability issues for new and sometimes even for seasoned users of Python.

I have contacted the SC in the beginning of this year and asked them to work with Debian maintainers. Some issues have been addressed and will be available in future releases. Matthias' talk at the language summit is related to the effort of improving Debian packaging.

Christian

-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 4:27 PM Nick Coghlan wrote:

Thanks for the update!

I know this request is a little ironic coming from me, but would it be possible to state the PEP titles the first time they're mentioned each month?

Yep. I usually do this, not sure why I forgot this time. The update was updated.

Cross referencing is a little awkward when reading the summary on a phone rather than a full computer.

Cheers, Nick.

On Tue, 18 May 2021, 11:12 pm Thomas Wouters, wrote:

...

The SC has just published the community update for March:

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-03-steerin...

We're still trying to get these done every month, but between the rush of PEPs and other issues before the 3.10b1 deadline, and PyCon US, we're delayed a little. (The April update hopefully won't be too long.) In the meantime, the SC keynote from PyCon US covers our longer-term plans and our points of view on a few other subjects, and that will hopefully be up on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2Uw4_HvXqvYk1Y5P8kryoyd83L_0Uk5K) soon. (Since it's mentioned in the notes below, I just want to point out that we didn't record on April 19th; it was pushed back to May 3rd, the same day 3.10b1 was cut.)

March 1

- Steering Council synced up on the rejection draft for PEP 651. Group discussed the importance of conveying that all aspects of the proposal were reviewed and the decision is a holistic one. Group will continue working on the draft and will sync up via Slack during the week so it can be sent out. - The Steering Council discussed PEP 648. Barry created a doc and the group will consolidate feedback+questions into this document. Then the Steering Council will post this on Discourse as well as to python-dev@ . - The Steering Council extensively discussed PEP 637. The group decided that it would reject the PEP based on the PEPs costs not being worth the benefits. - The Steering Council also discussed typing in general and who should own it. - Next week the SC will vote on the Documentation Work Group's charter.

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-03-steerin...March 8

- The Steering Council discussed Mark's response to the rejection of PEP 651. - The group also discussed the notification for PEP 637. - The group approved PEP 624 & PEP 597. - The Steering Council discussed PEP 644 and decided further communication was needed with Christian. - The Steering Council voted on and approved the Documentation Work Group. - The group discussed moving master to main and decided it needed to be done. The SC discussed communication around this change.

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-03-steerin...March 15

- Thomas updated the notifications for PEP 597, PEP 624 and PEP 637, and sent out the notifications March 15th. - Group checked in on the draft for PEP 648. Thomas has more text to add to it. - The Steering Council discussed what kind of presentation they will give at PyCon US. The group decided on a combination of presentation and Q&A. Team is working on an outline. SC members were also reminded to register for PyCon US, and encourage others to do so. - Barry proposed to the SC that they create a Work Group with a subset of the Python Security Response Team members and that group can help scope the future of the PSRT group. Everyone is fine with this. - Steering Council discussed code of conduct situations around changing master to main. The group decided on a warning to S.D. that will be sent as a warning to all. Thomas is working on the initial draft.

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-03-steerin...March 22

- Barry and Thomas checked-in on PEP 648's draft response, they will be sending it out soon. - The SC reviewed PEP 644 more. Pablo raised a concern around users that can be in an env without OpenSSL 1.1.1 or newer and then not being able to use wheels. Pablo will email Christian to get clarification and will keep the SC informed. - Steering Council discussed their keynote at PyCon US 2021. They would like to gather questions from the community. Ewa will create a Slido, which will be live from April 5 to 11th. SC will review questions on the 12th. The current plan is to record on April 19th. - Steering Council discussed the response to Debian. Carol's done with her draft. Pablo is going to take a look at it to see if anything else needs to be added. - SC discussed the behavior on python-dev@ pertaining to switching git from master to main.

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-03-steerin...March 29

- The Steering Council accepted PEP 644 (Require OpenSSL 1.1.1 or newer) - SC accepted PEP 652 (Maintaining the Stable ABI) - SC checked in on the draft response for PEP 648 (Extensible customizations of the interpreter at startup), and the draft response to the Debian discussion. - SC met with Ezio, PM for the GitHub Issues migration, to talk about status, progress and next steps, including keeping python-dev up to date.

-- Thomas Wouters

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