Closing the Clinic output format debate (at least for now)
The current tally of votes, by order of popularity: Side file: +6 Buffer: +1.5 Multiple buffers, Modified buffer, Forward buffer: +1 Original: -5 However, as stated, support for "side files" will not go in unless Guido explicitly states that it's okay with him. He has not. Therefore it's not going in. If you want this feature, take it up with our BDFL. I feel my hands are tied. Second-best is all the buffer approaches, collectively. Since there was no clear winner, I'm going to make the new default the "modified buffer" approach, as that's the only one that does not require rearranging your code to use. However, to encourage continued experimentation, I'm going to leave in the configurability (at least for now), so people can keep experimenting. Maybe we'll find something in the future that's a clear new favorite. As a stretch goal, I'd like to also add Zachary Ware's proposed "forward" buffer, as a further concession to experimentation. It shouldn't be too messy, but if it gets out of hand I'll back out of it. Finally, I'm going to add support for "presets" so you can switch between original / modified buffer / buffer / forward buffer with just one statement. (Multiple buffers doesn't need a different preset.) I'll also keep the line prefix (and add a line suffix too) and see if a prefix of "/*clinic*/" helps. //arry/
On 01/16/2014 12:13 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
The current tally of votes, by order of popularity:
Side file: +6 Buffer: +1.5 Multiple buffers, Modified buffer, Forward buffer: +1 Original: -5
I should add, that's out of a total of eleven votes cast. So the side file was a clear winner but far from unanimous. Since the votes were all public, the tally might as well be to. Here it is in handy "CSV" format: "Names", Original", "Side File", "Buffer", "Multiple Buffers", "Modified Buffer", "Forward Buffer" "Totals", -5, 6, 1.5, 1, 1, 1 "Brett Cannon", 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0 "Antoine Pitrou", -0.5, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Raymond Hettinger", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Zachary Ware", -1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0 "Georg Brandl", -1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 "Serhiy Storchaka", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Yury Selivanov", 0, 1, -1, -1, -1, 0 "Ryan Smith-Roberts", 1, 0, 0, -1, 1, 1 "Ethan Furman", 0, 0, 0.5, 0, 1, 0 "Meador Inge", -0.5, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Stefan Krah", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 //arry/
Am 16.01.2014 22:20, schrieb Larry Hastings:
On 01/16/2014 12:13 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
The current tally of votes, by order of popularity:
Side file: +6 Buffer: +1.5 Multiple buffers, Modified buffer, Forward buffer: +1 Original: -5
I should add, that's out of a total of eleven votes cast. So the side file was a clear winner but far from unanimous.
Since the votes were all public, the tally might as well be to. Here it is in handy "CSV" format:
"Names", Original", "Side File", "Buffer", "Multiple Buffers", "Modified Buffer", "Forward Buffer" "Totals", -5, 6, 1.5, 1, 1, 1 "Brett Cannon", 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0 "Antoine Pitrou", -0.5, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Raymond Hettinger", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Zachary Ware", -1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0 "Georg Brandl", -1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 "Serhiy Storchaka", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Yury Selivanov", 0, 1, -1, -1, -1, 0 "Ryan Smith-Roberts", 1, 0, 0, -1, 1, 1 "Ethan Furman", 0, 0, 0.5, 0, 1, 0 "Meador Inge", -0.5, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 "Stefan Krah", -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0
Although this is neglecting the difference between +0 and -0 :) Georg
I am tired of being the only blocker. So I withdraw my preference. Do what you all can agree on without me. On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Larry Hastings <larry@hastings.org> wrote:
The current tally of votes, by order of popularity:
Side file: +6 Buffer: +1.5 Multiple buffers, Modified buffer, Forward buffer: +1 Original: -5
However, as stated, support for "side files" will not go in unless Guido explicitly states that it's okay with him. He has not. Therefore it's not going in. If you want this feature, take it up with our BDFL. I feel my hands are tied.
Second-best is all the buffer approaches, collectively. Since there was no clear winner, I'm going to make the new default the "modified buffer" approach, as that's the only one that does not require rearranging your code to use. However, to encourage continued experimentation, I'm going to leave in the configurability (at least for now), so people can keep experimenting. Maybe we'll find something in the future that's a clear new favorite.
As a stretch goal, I'd like to also add Zachary Ware's proposed "forward" buffer, as a further concession to experimentation. It shouldn't be too messy, but if it gets out of hand I'll back out of it.
Finally, I'm going to add support for "presets" so you can switch between original / modified buffer / buffer / forward buffer with just one statement. (Multiple buffers doesn't need a different preset.)
I'll also keep the line prefix (and add a line suffix too) and see if a prefix of "/*clinic*/" helps.
/arry
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On 17 January 2014 08:01, Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
I am tired of being the only blocker. So I withdraw my preference. Do what you all can agree on without me.
I had been staying out of the debate because I haven't had time to participate in the derby yet (if nobody has claimed the builtins yet, I was planning to do that this weekend). However, reviewing the changes for http://bugs.python.org/issue20189 has now been enough to convince me that a separate generated file is the way to go. My rationale is because of the way it affects the code review process: with a separate file, I can skip to the next file in the review as soon as I see ".clinic" in the file name. We may even be able to teach Reitveld to skip over clinic files (or at least suggest skipping them) automatically. With the current intermingled hand written + generated format, I can't tell just from the file name whether or not there are manual changes I need to review. Fortunately, in this particular case, Larry provided a list of the files with real changes in them, but I now think it makes more sense to instead bake the "this is all generated code, if you have reviewed the input changes and trust argument clinic to do the right thing, you can just skip reviewing it" notification directly into the filenames. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
participants (4)
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Georg Brandl -
Guido van Rossum -
Larry Hastings -
Nick Coghlan