I come from a corporate IT background working as a drone in large businesses, starting about 30 years ago (argh!). I come from an IBM mainframe background, but with constant exposure and interfaces with other platforms, and writing code with a variety of languages and scripting languages throughout my career. I recently completed a very long and painful transition to becoming at least a part time Java developer. For the past several years I have had a background conversation with myself on the topic of the Perfect Programming Language; what would it look like/feel like. Then I stumbled on Python, and I am totally hooked. I gather this experience is similar to others who are now Python advocates, who are using Python for their personal projects, etc. In the short term, though, for the corporate world, it'll probably be an uphill battle to have major projects developed in Python (or even Jython, which would be the logical choice for a transition out of j2ee to the lamp world). There is some amount of resistance to open source software. The same resistance to linux was overcome by 'respectable' companies supporting and interacting on a corporate level, like Red Hat. IBM certainly helped there, too, like it or not. Python would probably do well to have similar corporate advocates, but that would be an expensive and risky business proposition. Short term, I wouldn't expect to be able to make a big paycheck out of Python. As time goes on and the younger programmers who are using Python on their personal and open source projects get into positions of influence in the corporate world that will change. My thoughts, for what it's worth. Fight the good fight! Michael On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 04:28 +0200, python-dev-request@python.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Python developers are in demand (Nick Efford) 2. Re: Python developers are in demand (Facundo Batista) 3. Re: Python tickets summary (Facundo Batista) 4. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anthony Roy) 5. Re: Python developers are in demand (Kevin Jacobs <jacobs@bioinformed.com>) 6. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anna Ravenscroft) 7. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anna Ravenscroft) 8. Re: Python developers are in demand (Titus Brown) 9. Re: Python tickets summary (Ron Adam) 10. Re: Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread (Facundo Batista)

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Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0100 From: Nick Efford <nde@comp.leeds.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand To: python-dev@python.org Message-ID: <472076E6.3090307@comp.leeds.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes.

I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years!

Nick

-- Dr Nick Efford, School of | E: nde@comp.leeds.ac.uk Computing, University of | T: +44 113 343 6809 Leeds, Leeds, LS2 9JT, UK | W: http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nde/ --------------------------+----------------------------------------- PGP fingerprint: 6ADF 16C2 4E2D 320B F537 8F3C 402D 1C78 A668 8492

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Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:13:48 -0300 From: "Facundo Batista" <facundobatista@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand To: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit@gmail.com> Cc: " Martin v. L?wis " <martin@v.loewis.de>, Christian Heimes <lists@cheimes.de>, Python Dev <python-dev@python.org> Message-ID: <e04bdf310710250513j75099e7cj7e9d6fb662902472@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

2007/10/24, Alex Martelli <aleaxit@gmail.com>:

...

using C++ and Java (and often C), but as far as I know there is no Stanford course (at least not within Symbolic Systems) that focuses specifically and exclusively on Python (there IS one course,

In my constant try-to-push-Python-everywhere-I-go, I offered several times Python courses to educational institutions (sometimes even free).

I succeeded some times, but then these courses not thrived year after year. Normally, this is because the people that is actually taking the decision of which language to teach in the courses do not know Python, so is easier to them to keep teaching C. And this happens even if it's not the better to the students, and even witht the students asking for the change.

But this is a problem of educative system here in Argentina, not of Python itself (it surely get affected, though).

Regards,

-- . Facundo

Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/

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Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:11:28 -0300 From: "Facundo Batista" <facundobatista@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python tickets summary To: rrr@ronadam.com Cc: python-dev@python.org Message-ID: <e04bdf310710250611h6fc6eab2m1ffee69777e8d3d5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

2007/10/24, Ron Adam <rrr@ronadam.com>:

...

...

Note that these items are *all* open.

I think the page title should reflect this. Possible changing it from

"Python tickets"

to "Python Open Tickets"

Good point! It's fixed now.

Thank you!

-- . Facundo

Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/

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Message: 4 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:40:45 +0100 (BST) From: "Anthony Roy" <home@antroy.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand To: "Nick Efford" <nde@comp.leeds.ac.uk> Cc: python-dev@python.org Message-ID: <9558.194.200.199.193.1193316045.squirrel@webmail.plus.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

...

Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes.

I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years!

I was a researcher in the School of Computing at Leeds Uni about 4 years ago. Good to see them pushing Python!

I keep my eyes open for Python Developer roles in the UK (particularly the North), since I would far prefer to develop in Python than Java. However, in the UK Python Jobs seem to be few and far between, and most of the ones that there are are either low paid sys admin type roles, or are based in London.

Cheers,

-- Anthony Roy

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Message: 5 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:04 -0400 From: "Kevin Jacobs <jacobs@bioinformed.com>" <bioinformed@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand To: python-dev@python.org Message-ID: <2e1434c10710250718v3b9d72esf5ee79be7d96a51d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Just to chime in from the other side of the coin.

I'm actively trying to hire qualified scientific programmers with strong Python experience. Unfortunately, I've had little success finding candidates with actual Python knowledge, resorting mainly to hiring those who've seen it and can readily learn it on the job. So while it is encouraging that Python is being used as an introductory language, that trend has yet to "trickle up" to general availability of more advanced practitioners.

(The other reason I am having trouble recruiting Pythonistas is that my field -- statistical genetics -- tends to be saturated with Perl folk. Retraining them is a blast...)

~Kevin