IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)
Hi, The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat: https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)! Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some notifications are still on Freenode. -- Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat). Announcement in french: https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152 I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated me to move bots notfications ;-) Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat: https://www.pound-python.org/ The PSF (Group Contact) owns #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on Libera. I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide. I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera. Victor On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
Hi,
The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat: https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some notifications are still on Freenode.
--
Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat). Announcement in french: https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated me to move bots notfications ;-)
Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
-- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going on between different IRC providers?!? On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat: https://www.pound-python.org/
The PSF (Group Contact) owns #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on Libera.
I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
Victor
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
Hi,
The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat: https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some notifications are still on Freenode.
--
Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat). Announcement in french: https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated me to move bots notfications ;-)
Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
-- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTU... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...>
I found this article about what's up with FreeNode: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-... -Fred On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 11:48 AM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going on between different IRC providers?!?
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat: https://www.pound-python.org/
The PSF (Group Contact) owns #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on Libera.
I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
Victor
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
Hi,
The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat: https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some notifications are still on Freenode.
--
Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat). Announcement in french: https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated me to move bots notfications ;-)
Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
-- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTU... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...> _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IAIOXCDC... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fred at fdrake.net> "There is nothing more uncommon than common sense." --Frank Lloyd Wright
This section on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict and this article have a good summary: https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-ne... Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat. After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic (as happened with #python-fr).
What a mess! I hope the PSF is healthy enough that that will never happen to us. On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com> wrote:
This section on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict and this article have a good summary:
https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-ne...
Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat. After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic (as happened with #python-fr).
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...>
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:01 PM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
What a mess! I hope the PSF is healthy enough that that will never happen to us.
Well, yes, so do I! :) In reality, though, I would say that the PSF has enough safe-guards, checks and balances, community support and legal clout to prevent this kind of thing. Freenode had none of that, just a company created for their conferences which then assumed control over the rest of the IP. (This kind of thing is one of the reasons it's important for the PSF membership and PSF board to adequately represent the actual Python community. PSF Board elections are soon! Everyone should think about running for the board :)
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com> wrote:
This section on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict and this article have a good summary:
https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-ne...
Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat. After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic (as happened with #python-fr).
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...> _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SD7KLY2I... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Thomas Wouters <thomas@python.org> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me spread!
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com <mailto:ammar@ammaraskar.com>> wrote:
most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company. -- Greg
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:25 PM Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com <mailto:ammar@ammaraskar.com>> wrote:
most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.
Sometimes this is a cultural issue. In at least some parts of Asia it appears to be accepted.
On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 00:52, Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:25 PM Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com <mailto:ammar@ammaraskar.com>> wrote:
most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.
Sometimes this is a cultural issue. In at least some parts of Asia it appears to be accepted.
I don't think this is a cultural issue so much as an issue with a particular person. I've never really used IRC or freenode but I realised when reading about this that Andrew Lee sounded like someone I'd heard about before. Turns out I do know people who have had direct dealings with him. The message from those people is clear: avoid him like the plague. The impression I have is that his intentions are likely not malicious but his effect (on freenode or anything else) could easily be devastating in any case. -- Oscar
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:18:16AM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar <ammar@ammaraskar.com <mailto:ammar@ammaraskar.com>> wrote:
most recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.
Apple prohibits apps from mentioning competing platforms. If Apple doesn't count as a successful company, I'm not sure what is. https://androidcommunity.com/some-apps-in-apples-app-store-rejected-for-ment... Reddit likewise shadowbans posts that mention at least one, possibly more, competing forums. And let's not forget the tech industry, lead by Apple, Google and Amazon, getting Parler banned under the excuse that the January 6th Capital rioters planned violent attacks on Parler, when the truth was that the great majority of planning took place on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/02/07/sheryl-sandberg-downp... Companies frequently, and often successfully, silence their competition. It might be reprehensible but it's hardly a barrier to success. -- Steve
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:49 PM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going on between different IRC providers?!?
Not really a war between them, more like a split community. A change of administration on Freenode (which led to practically all the staff, all of them volunteers, resigning) followed by policy changes many people disagree with. The staff that left Freenode started a new network instead, which is libera.chat. The policy changes and the behaviour of the new staff on Freenode are problematic for a number of reasons, so the move to libera.chat is pretty much a no-brainer. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-... has some of the backstory, and there's https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 with more details on what went wrong, as well as observations like https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1397384190644002818
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat: https://www.pound-python.org/
The PSF (Group Contact) owns #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on Libera.
I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
Victor
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner@python.org> wrote:
Hi,
The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat: https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some notifications are still on Freenode.
--
Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat). Announcement in french: https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated me to move bots notfications ;-)
Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
-- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTU... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-c...> _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IAIOXCDC... Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Thomas Wouters <thomas@python.org> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me spread!
participants (9)
-
Ammar Askar -
Dan Stromberg -
Fred Drake -
Greg Ewing -
Guido van Rossum -
Oscar Benjamin -
Steven D'Aprano -
Thomas Wouters -
Victor Stinner