Is it still the plan to have to rapid schedule for the first bugfix release (perhaps in early September)? I think it will increase the acceptance of 2.3 and help it to be viewed as stabilized . Raymond Hettinger
[Raymond Hettinger]
Is it still the plan to have to rapid schedule for the first bugfix release (perhaps in early September)?
AFAIK there's nothing worthy of being called "a plan" for any future release(s).
I think it will increase the acceptance of 2.3 and help it to be viewed as stabilized .
Me too. I can't give non-trivial time to closing bugs or patches in the foreseeable future, but can volunteer a night to test and pump out a 3.1 Windows installer (unless Thomas Heller wants to do it). More important is that someone volunteer to be the 3.1 Release Czar (which, as former Release Czars can testify, requires real time and effort).
"Tim Peters"
[Raymond Hettinger]
Is it still the plan to have to rapid schedule for the first bugfix release (perhaps in early September)?
AFAIK there's nothing worthy of being called "a plan" for any future release(s).
I think it will increase the acceptance of 2.3 and help it to be viewed as stabilized .
Me too. I can't give non-trivial time to closing bugs or patches in the foreseeable future, but can volunteer a night to test and pump out a 3.1 Windows installer (unless Thomas Heller wants to do it).
I would do it, but I'm on vacation the first two weeks of September. Thomas
[Raymond Hettinger]
Is it still the plan to have to rapid schedule for the first bugfix release (perhaps in early September)?
[Tim]
AFAIK there's nothing worthy of being called "a plan" for any future release(s).
Let's make a plan so that it doesn't languish. [Raymond]
I think it will increase the acceptance of 2.3 and help it to be viewed as stabilized .
[Tim]
Me too. I can't give non-trivial time to closing bugs or patches in the foreseeable future, but can volunteer a night to test and pump out a 3.1 Windows installer (unless Thomas Heller wants to do it).
[Thomas Heller]
I would do it, but I'm on vacation the first two weeks of September.
The third week in September would be a good target date if you could do it then. That will leave time for more fixes to get in and be exercised. Kurt still has a handful of open idle issues, Michael has a few leaks left to hunt down, and MvL has been on vacation and not had a chance to review the open bug reports. [Aahz]
While I think this is a Good Idea, to my knowledge there isn't any particular driver for a speedy release. I also haven't heard that many of the bugs considered important/critical for 2.3.1 have been fixed;
A handful of small disasters were fixed: * Windows failures when installed on path names with spaces * Runaway leaks in the socket and array modules * strptime() running thousands of times slower without caching All of these are a barrier to 2.3.1 being accepted as stable. Raymond Hettinger ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# #################################################################
The third week in September would be a good target date if you could do it then.
Excellent, assuming 2.3.1 will need me as much as 2.3 did -- I'll be on vacation that week. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
A handful of small disasters were fixed: * Windows failures when installed on path names with spaces
Has this actually been fixed, or is this referring to something other than IDLE? (I haven't seen anything, so I'm just double-checking.)
All of these are a barrier to 2.3.1 being accepted as stable.
Hmmm? That doesn't make sense. -- Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects with useful practice. --Aahz
All of these are a barrier to 2.3.1 being accepted as stable.
Hmmm? That doesn't make sense.
I think you know that I meant 2.3
That's what I *thought* you meant, but I've seen enough typos that I'm rarely certain anymore what was meant. "Explicit is better than implicit" -- Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects with useful practice. --Aahz
[Raymond]
A handful of small disasters were fixed: * Windows failures when installed on path names with spaces
[Aahz]
Has this actually been fixed,
Yes, it's fine in current CVS. OTOH, I'd characterize it more minor nuisance than small disaster.
or is this referring to something other than IDLE?
No.
"Raymond Hettinger"
The third week in September would be a good target date if you could do it then.
So long as you mean "the end of the third week" (I'm away 6-14 Sept.), sounds good. Did I hear you volunteering to be RM <wink>? Cheers, mwh -- The "of course, while I have no problem with this at all, it's surely too much for a lesser being" flavor of argument always rings hollow to me. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998
I'm just, after downloading, building and installing a lot of stuff, trying to make sure that I really can build the Windows installer for 2.3.1. I'm practicing on the trunk - I don't think anyone wants to review the changes to the windows installer, so I'll check them in shortly, it seems that everything works so far. The only question remaining is how to build the html docs. I don't think it works on Windows (I remember having built the pdf docs with TeTeX, but that was it). Do I have to fire up linux in a vmware box to build them, or are there other possibilities? Thomas
Thomas Heller
I'm just, after downloading, building and installing a lot of stuff, trying to make sure that I really can build the Windows installer for 2.3.1.
I'm practicing on the trunk - I don't think anyone wants to review the changes to the windows installer, so I'll check them in shortly, it seems that everything works so far.
The only question remaining is how to build the html docs. I don't think it works on Windows (I remember having built the pdf docs with TeTeX, but that was it).
Do I have to fire up linux in a vmware box to build them, or are there other possibilities?
Seems I should have read pep 101 before posting. Sorry for the noise. Thomas
[Thomas Heller]
I'm just, after downloading, building and installing a lot of stuff, trying to make sure that I really can build the Windows installer for 2.3.1.
I'm practicing on the trunk - I don't think anyone wants to review the changes to the windows installer, so I'll check them in shortly, it seems that everything works so far.
Cool! I hope you tried it on a non-privileged account under XP Algerian with omelets in the install path <wink>.
The only question remaining is how to build the html docs. I don't think it works on Windows (I remember having built the pdf docs with TeTeX, but that was it).
Do I have to fire up linux in a vmware box to build them, or are there other possibilities?
I've never built them. As http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0101.html says, Fred builds release docs, and then Fred tells Tim Peters where the documentation file is. by which it means a .bz2 archive of the generated HTML, stored on python.org. I download it, unpack it into a child directory of PCbuild, then rename the directory to "html". That's where the installer expects to find it. If you want to practice, try the most recent docs: http://www.python.org/ftp/python/doc/2.3/html-2.3.tar.bz2 Another project we ran out of time for was building the Windows HTML docs into a .chm file; there's a quite capable script for doing that in Doc/tools/prechm.py but it hasn't been updated since the last time it worked.
"Tim Peters"
Another project we ran out of time for was building the Windows HTML docs into a .chm file; there's a quite capable script for doing that in
Doc/tools/prechm.py
but it hasn't been updated since the last time it worked.
This script works with the current docs as well. But including it in the windows installer instead of the 1250 html pages will raise the size by ~200 kB (probably the full text index), but worse, pydoc expects the normal html pages. hh.exe can decompile the chm file, but is it a good idea to do this during (or after) installation? Thomas
[Tim]
Another project we ran out of time for was building the Windows HTML docs into a .chm file; there's a quite capable script for doing that in
Doc/tools/prechm.py
but it hasn't been updated since the last time it worked.
[Thomas Heller]
This script works with the current docs as well. But including it in the windows installer instead of the 1250 html pages will raise the size by ~200 kB (probably the full text index),
The size of what? The installer .exe? I'm not sure anyone would notice, given how large it is already. We certainly lose more than 200KB after installation to the file-padding and directory-entry burdens of spreading the docs over 1000+ separate files.
but worse, pydoc expects the normal html pages.
A fully indexed .chm file is much better for searching than pydoc. Sounds like a case of lose-a-little, gain-a-lot.
hh.exe can decompile the chm file, but is it a good idea to do this during (or after) installation?
If there's a nice searchable .chm file, I wouldn't want a thousand separate HTML files in addition.
"Tim Peters"
[Tim]
Another project we ran out of time for was building the Windows HTML docs into a .chm file; there's a quite capable script for doing that in
Doc/tools/prechm.py
but it hasn't been updated since the last time it worked.
[Thomas Heller]
This script works with the current docs as well. But including it in the windows installer instead of the 1250 html pages will raise the size by ~200 kB (probably the full text index),
The size of what? The installer .exe? I'm not sure anyone would notice, given how large it is already.
Sure. I just wanted to mention that switching to .chm doesn't decrease the download size for the installer exe.
A fully indexed .chm file is much better for searching than pydoc. Sounds like a case of lose-a-little, gain-a-lot.
Ok, should this already go into 2.3.1? Thomas
[Thomas Heller]
Sure. I just wanted to mention that switching to .chm doesn't decrease the download size for the installer exe.
So it's pretty mucn neutral by that measure. After installation, it saves a lot of space (the 1000+ HTML files expand to > 12MB now).
A fully indexed .chm file is much better for searching than pydoc. Sounds like a case of lose-a-little, gain-a-lot.
Ok, should this already go into 2.3.1?
I think so. Note that IDLE may need a bit of fiddling, to keep its Help -> Python Docs menu entry working.
Tim Peters writes:
I think so. Note that IDLE may need a bit of fiddling, to keep its Help -> Python Docs menu entry working.
IDLE currently looks for the index.html file in a few places (which depend on platform); if it can't find it, it uses the documentation on python.org. It should be too hard to change it to load the HTML Help viewer if it finds the .chm file on Windows, and to still fall back to the HTML or the online documentation if the .chm can't be found. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org> PythonLabs at Zope Corporation
Fred L. Drake, Jr. writes:
It should be too hard to change it to load the HTML Help viewer if it finds the .chm file on Windows, and to still fall back to the HTML or the online documentation if the .chm can't be found.
Tim suggested that I meant that it *shouldn't* be too hard to change it. He was wrong; I said what I meant. ;-) It *should* be hard; if changing Python code were hard, Python programmers would have a better shot at job security. Since it isn't, changing IDLE won't be too hard, and no one will ever be able to keep a job programming in Python. Now, if that isn't what we love about Python, I don't know what is! ;-) -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org> PythonLabs at Zope Corporation
"Fred L. Drake, Jr."
Tim Peters writes:
I think so. Note that IDLE may need a bit of fiddling, to keep its Help -> Python Docs menu entry working.
IDLE currently looks for the index.html file in a few places (which depend on platform); if it can't find it, it uses the documentation on python.org.
It should be too hard to change it to load the HTML Help viewer if it finds the .chm file on Windows, and to still fall back to the HTML or the online documentation if the .chm can't be found.
Changing it is trivial, EditorWindow.help_url must point to Python23.chm (if it exists). I can do this. Even nicer would be context-sensitive keyword help, but it seems IDLE doesn't support it, right? Thomas
Thomas Heller writes:
Even nicer would be context-sensitive keyword help, but it seems IDLE doesn't support it, right?
Not currently, but part of the reason is that the Python docs don't really expose the necessary information to support that. I've started working on that in a branch of the Doc/ tree, but haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org> PythonLabs at Zope Corporation
"Fred L. Drake, Jr."
Thomas Heller writes:
Even nicer would be context-sensitive keyword help, but it seems IDLE doesn't support it, right?
Not currently, but part of the reason is that the Python docs don't really expose the necessary information to support that. I've started working on that in a branch of the Doc/ tree, but haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately.
But doesn't something like swish (I've used that in the past) allow to index and search the doc tree? OTOH: pyhelp.cgi does keyword search using the same technique as the one used to the the htmlhelp keywords, and is cross platform as well ;-) Thomas
Thomas Heller writes:
But doesn't something like swish (I've used that in the past) allow to index and search the doc tree?
Should be able to, if someone does the work to integrate it. I'm not sure if there's currently a Python binding; I only looked at their website briefly a month or so ago.
OTOH: pyhelp.cgi does keyword search using the same technique as the one used to the the htmlhelp keywords, and is cross platform as well ;-)
Then by all means, feel free to hook that up in IDLE! -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org> PythonLabs at Zope Corporation
"Fred L. Drake, Jr."
Thomas Heller writes:
But doesn't something like swish (I've used that in the past) allow to index and search the doc tree?
Should be able to, if someone does the work to integrate it. I'm not sure if there's currently a Python binding; I only looked at their website briefly a month or so ago.
OTOH: pyhelp.cgi does keyword search using the same technique as the one used to the the htmlhelp keywords, and is cross platform as well ;-)
Then by all means, feel free to hook that up in IDLE!
(I fear this is getting off-topic for python-dev) The only thing I do not know is how to display a list of urls found, and let the user select one. Is there any functionality in IDLE for this? Thomas
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
Thomas Heller writes:
Even nicer would be context-sensitive keyword help, but it seems IDLE doesn't support it, right?
Not currently, but part of the reason is that the Python docs don't really expose the necessary information to support that. I've started working on that in a branch of the Doc/ tree, but haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately.
-Fred
I don't know if this will help, I wrote a utility class for PyXR that manages to harvest links for about 80-90% of builtin functions and standard modules from the HTML docs. I originally tried to look at the latex sources directly, but that proved to be too complex. It takes a callback fucntion that receives a scope-tuple and appropriate url. Like: ('map',), "http://dsdfsdfs" ('socket', 'socket'), "http://dsfsdf" ... Its in the htmlCrawler.py file in the PyXR dist at: http://tinyurl.com/ld34 OR you can view the PyXR'ed source (with a description of my assumptions) at: http://tinyurl.com/ld2z -Grant
"Tim Peters"
[Thomas Heller]
Sure. I just wanted to mention that switching to .chm doesn't decrease the download size for the installer exe.
So it's pretty mucn neutral by that measure. After installation, it saves a lot of space (the 1000+ HTML files expand to > 12MB now).
A fully indexed .chm file is much better for searching than pydoc. Sounds like a case of lose-a-little, gain-a-lot.
Ok, should this already go into 2.3.1?
I think so. Note that IDLE may need a bit of fiddling, to keep its Help -> Python Docs menu entry working.
What is the purpose of this registry entry HKLM\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.3\Help\Main Python Documentation ? Thomas
[Thomas Heller]
What is the purpose of this registry entry
HKLM\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.3\Help\Main Python Documentation ?
I don't know. Core Python doesn't use the registry for anything in normal operation, so I'm copying Mark Hammond (who probably set this key way back when for his own inscrutable <wink> reasons).
"Tim Peters"
[Thomas Heller]
What is the purpose of this registry entry
HKLM\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.3\Help\Main Python Documentation ?
I don't know. Core Python doesn't use the registry for anything in normal operation, so I'm copying Mark Hammond (who probably set this key way back when for his own inscrutable <wink> reasons).
It seems PythonWin uses this - it has a menu entry for 'Python Manuals'. And it works correctly with Python23.chm. Thomas
[Thomas Heller]
What is the purpose of this registry entry
HKLM\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.3\Help\Main Python Documentation ?
I don't know. Core Python doesn't use the registry for anything in normal operation, so I'm copying Mark Hammond (who probably set this key way back when for his own inscrutable <wink> reasons).
Yep - it is just there so tools can locate all installed Python documentation. Pythonwin grows its help list based on this, and lists its .chm there. I have idea if IDLE uses it. Mark.
"Tim Peters" wrote More important is that someone volunteer to be the 3.1 Release Czar (which, as former Release Czars can testify, requires real time and effort).
[Anthony Baxter]
I'm happy to take this on.
Since I need to learn to do this, I'm happy to assist as much as possible. Raymond Hettinger
On Sun, 2003-08-17 at 17:14, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
"Tim Peters" wrote More important is that someone volunteer to be the 3.1 Release Czar (which, as former Release Czars can testify, requires real time and effort).
[Anthony Baxter]
I'm happy to take this on.
Since I need to learn to do this, I'm happy to assist as much as possible.
Since I've done it several times before, I'm available to help out if and where necessary. -Barry
"Tim Peters" wrote [Anthony Baxter, re the 3.1 Release Czar position] I'm happy to take this on.
So where's the release 3.1 PEP already <wink>?
gratefully y'rs - tim
Working on a 2.3.1 release PEP at the moment. the-3.1-release-PEP-can-wait-you-should-see-the-deprecations-list y'rs, Anthony
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Is it still the plan to have to rapid schedule for the first bugfix release (perhaps in early September)?
I think it will increase the acceptance of 2.3 and help it to be viewed as stabilized .
While I think this is a Good Idea, to my knowledge there isn't any particular driver for a speedy release. I also haven't heard that many of the bugs considered important/critical for 2.3.1 have been fixed; generally speaking, a patch release tends to be a collection of available fixes rather than driving the bugfix process. -- Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects with useful practice. --Aahz
participants (12)
-
Aahz -
Anthony Baxter -
Barry Warsaw -
Fred L. Drake, Jr. -
Guido van Rossum -
logistix -
Mark Hammond -
Michael Hudson -
Raymond Hettinger -
Raymond Hettinger -
Thomas Heller -
Tim Peters